Chat Pile: "When everything is so terrible, humor is the only way to get through it"

If we were to name five heavy-sounding bands whose reputation is spreading rapidly despite their quite distinctive music - and rightfully so, considering their talent - Chat Pile would definitely be one of them. The Americans caught attention from their very first EPs, but things truly took an upward turn with the release of their debut album, "God’s Country." The bar was set so high that expectations for the follow-up, "Cool World", were enormous - and those expectations were fully met.

Between their secret show and their official appearance at the latest Roadburn Festival, we had a very interesting conversation with Raygun Busch and Cap’n Ron, the band’s vocalist and drummer. Two extremely laid-back and cool guys, despite being beasts on stage, were happy to talk about what goes on in Chat Pile’s creative process. They spoke to us with sadness about what was happening in America, even before it escalated to the level we are experiencing today, about their approach, and about the comparisons they have received both with Daughters and with the nu metal scene.

Even more so, they spoke with enthusiasm in their eyes about their love for cinema and their admiration for "Sinners", feeling vindicated by its Oscar recognition in the nominations, as well as about their own personal involvement in film. Finally, they told us a few words about their wonderful collaboration with Hayden Pedigo, which has now been released, "In The Earth Again". Follow the thoughts of two people with whom, in the end, we share many things and worry about similar issues.

How's it going? I see you're like a little bit tired, or not?

Raygun: I'm doing good. All right.

Cap’n Ron: Doing well!

So, hello, I'm coming from Rocking.gr from Athens, Greece. Hopefully see you there one time!

Raygun: I would love to play Athens, Greece.

We are some people waiting for that, but we're going to speak about it. So we're now at the Roadburn Festival and we just managed to see you yesterday evening performing at the Skate Hall with the biggest queue I've seen so far, to be honest. How was that experience playing in that specific stage?

Raygun: It was awesome. having the lights on like that, and being, I mean, that was a really nice skate park.

Cap’n Ron: Nice skate park.

Raygun: I think I've never been in a skate park that nice in my life.

Did you skate?

Raygun: As a youth, yeah. Now, I would probably shatter like glass if I fell off a skateboard! But yeah, it was great. We had a good time. I was happy to play the songs that we played last night, 'cause that means we don't necessarily have to play the same tonight – we managed to play "Slaughterhouse".

I felt really lucky to be there. So, we'll get back to the Roadburn experience in a bit. Let's take it a little bit further back to the actual music. I discovered you since the EP "Remove Your Skin Please", and when "God’s Country" came about, I was very happy that people started acknowledging you. And now that you have "Cool World" out, your second album, can you tell me a little bit about your creative process between the two albums? Where do you draw your inspiration from?

Raygun: Well, we all do this at home. So from "This Dungeon Earth" to "Remove Your Skin Please", to "God's Country", we've gotten a lot better at figuring out how to record at home. It's way smoother now. I feel, for me at least, "Cool World" was the easiest thing that we've done. We have a newer album that's not out yet. It'll be coming out October with our friend Hayden Pedigo. It's a collaboration album. And that was truly the easiest album that we've ever made. Because that was just kind of us messing around, but it was a lot of fun.

Cool World" was, in terms of just creating it, was a lot smoother than "God's Country", easier. Although the subject matter is perhaps even heavier than it was on "God's Country". The world is in much worse shape than it even was two years ago

I kind of want to go there.

Raygun: We'd be remiss to not address that and speak to the anxiety that we're all collectively feeling about the state of the world and where we're all headed.

If people want that kind of music but they can't listen to Daughters anymore because that guy's a piece of shit, then welcome aboard to Chat Pile land, I guess!

Well, yeah, that's The thing that I wanted to ask, you said about going smoother, and in your first album, a lot of people were comparing you to Daughters, actually. And I really want to ask, how did that felt for you, listening that you're a band as good as their music, but trying to be far better people than them? Does it feel like getting too many expectations?

Raygun: It's hard getting compared to that band in particular because I don't listen to them at all and I never have and neither does he (pointing to Ron). I think that we're all probably the same age as those guys and we all probably like the same bands and are growing from the same influences and it's just kind of, a thing where we just sort of sound similar. I obviously condemn that guy's actions, completely. I never listened to Daughters before. And so then that happens and there's no reason for me to ever listen to Daughters now. At the same time, I haven't done anything that horrible, but I hate to be like, I'm better than them. That's an interesting question. It is strange that people say that we're like Daughters but not cancelled. If people want that kind of music but they can't listen to Daughters anymore because that guy's a piece of shit, then welcome aboard to Chat Pile land, I guess!

So now with "God’s Country", though, the trope kind of changed because you managed to evolve to something entirely yours. Now the tables have turned and people are commenting on other bands that they are playing like Chat Pile. How does that feel for you now?

Cap’n Ron: This has to be the highest compliment. We're doing this just because we love to do it. And when people connect with it, that's just like icing on the cake.

Raygun: It's pretty crazy. Kids will come up and be like, "you're my favorite drummer or you're my favorite vocalist" or whatever. And that's so weird to hear. It's humbling. I'm grateful, but it's strange, it's wonderful.

But do you play nu metal though? How did this joke start (mentioning the known gimmick that they play nu metal which is somewhat irrelevant to their sound)?

Raygun: Well, we all like Alternative music, heavy music. I would say the two bands that we all like are Nirvana, Rage Against the Machine maybe. And I don't know what other bands we all agree on. There's not too many. He (Ron) loves Nine Inch Nails. I love like Xiu Xiu. Stin loves Korn, and then Luther Manhole, he is a deep well of knowledge of lots of crazy death metal, all sorts of things I've never heard of. It's more about knowing what is good and having good taste and honing in your taste - it's not necessarily something that's going to sound good to everyone or that there's a master, it’s not like somebody's taste is what everything should be like. We're making music that we like. We're not putting out music that we don't like. It's not compromised in any way, so it's good that people are into it. It's gratifying. A lot of people do that same thing and are not where we’re at right now, so who knows why we're here?

So you draw a pretty clear line with your lyrical themes and your stance as a band and your music being sad, angry, and most of the times, hopeless. Kind of like you said it before, like the mad preachers, you screamed about everything you hated for a pretentious country like the USA. And now everything became worse. So how do you feel that despite having the ability to express everything, all becomes worse? But at the same time, how does it feel to have the opportunity as a more popular artist to meet people around the world that think like you?

Cap’n Ron: To know that you're not alone, especially when it crosses borders, it's very humbling and, also inspiring too.

Raygun: It seems like most people that we're meeting, everyone is pretty afraid of the rise of fascism. We're in Netherlands right now, but like America, the situation is scary.

Greece has been like shit regarding nationalism for a lot of years.

Raygun: We're not doing too good right now. I think our empire is crumbling right now. And to be honest, so be it.

The imaginary downfall of America might create some cool things for you to write about!

Raygun: I don't want to die because of it if it happens! But America hasn’t been kind to its people and this might bite us back.

We said "Free Palestine" on stage last night. I must say it on stage tonight. We're going to be vocal about that kind of thing

According to that, do you feel that there is any obstacle to speak so openly about the world's atrocities when you get more popular?

Raygun: Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's like a death metal tremolo, all like our livelihood is wrapped up in this too. You think about that kind of stuff, but you gotta say what you need to say, you can't serve people and make everybody happy, but at the same time I need to live, I need to support my family as an artist. But no, we'll always be speaking truth to power. I mean I'll try to, I'd like to think I'm that brave. I could have a gun in my head and say how I feel, regardless of the consequence. I guess we'll see when that moment comes to be more popular. We said "Free Palestine" on stage last night. I must say it on stage tonight. We're going to be vocal about that kind of thing. So we'll see what happens.

Being human is ridiculous in itself. You can’t make it completely dark without having at least a little irony or self-deprecation in there

We'll wish you the best for that. On the other side of the map, dark humor has been a really big part of the whole band experience. But you try to be bitterly funny and I really appreciate that. But why did you choose this type of communication as artists? Is it something that you also do in your personal life or is it like kind of an artistic expression?

Raygun: We like to have fun. We're normal people. We joke. Our humor isn't all dark, some of the humor in Chat Pile is just absurd and silly. At the end of the day, we might end up with 10 songs called "Mask" or similar sounding for no reason (mentioning the fact that they already have "The Mask", "Masc" and "Mask" already). Just a confusion. I would love that. That's all. That's the only reason. There's no reason behind it other than just having fun. Humor is a source of power in a way. It's a way to be free. You gotta have humor, especially when shit gets dark. I mean, black humor comes from Ireland, during the famine years you gotta laugh about death because it's all around you. I think humor is an inseparable part of existence. You can’t separate one from the other. You might sing about death, pain, or poverty, but there’s always that ridiculous side of things that you can’t ignore.

Being human is ridiculous in itself. You can’t make it completely dark without having at least a little irony or self-deprecation in there.

Cap’n Ron: And I think that shows in our live shows too. No matter how dark the music is, we want people to have a good time. We don’t want them to leave crushed. We want them to laugh, sweat, and feel.

Raygun: Definitely. And in the lyrics, there’s always that little spark of irony, a moment where you think, "It’s tragic, but also kind of funny at the same time." So yeah - there’s definitely a lot of dark humor in there.

We’re not here to make people feel bad, but we’re also not here to laugh at serious things. We want there to be room for both tragedy and humor - because that’s how life is

So, you draw a fairly clear line between being "serious" and being "humorous" in your music. How do you manage to balance the two?

Raygun: I think that’s one of the hardest things, especially when you’re writing lyrics or when you’re in a band that deals with serious topics. If you take yourself too seriously, you end up looking ridiculous, and there’s no way to avoid that. But if you don’t take anything seriously, then it seems like you don’t care, and that’s no better.

So I try to find a middle ground between the two - to express genuine feelings, but not be so self-centered or melodramatic that it turns into self-parody. It’s a fine line.

Cap’n Ron: I completely agree. We’re not here to make people feel bad, but we’re also not here to laugh at serious things. We want there to be room for both tragedy and humor - because that’s how life is.

Raygun: Exactly. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is laugh. When everything is so terrible, humor is the only way to get through it.

Reagun, I also know that you're kind of a cinephile yourself, my colleagues went to see "Sinners" today because they saw your review on Letterboxd. How much do you get inspired from cinema? Do you get inspired by fantasy and fantastic themes, or do you prefer to stick to the harsh, cold reality?

Raygun: I like it all. We're both huge into movies

Cap’n Ron: Well, his letterbox account is kind of pretty popular!

Raygun: He's got a letterbox account too. He doesn't rate stuff! (laughing) he just logs what he watches, and this man watches movies all fucking day long.

Cap’n Ron: What I'm doing is I'm not doing anything else! (laughing)

Do you actually find the time between tours and writing music?

Raygun: Hell yeah. I flew into London with my girlfriend. My girlfriend's here. She's at a weird theme park right now somewhere in Tilburg. I flew into London specifically because I wanted to go to the Prince Charles Cinema again. We saw "Harakiri", the Kobayashi movie, and it was great. And we saw "Sinners". It was lovely.

You have also written a score and you played in the independent film "Tenkiller". How did this work came about?

Raygun: That was early on. Those are just some local people they just decided I would fit in the film. I hate to call it a midlife crisis type thing, but what is it if it’s not that? I wanted to make a movie and God bless him, Jeremy Choate the writer and director. Him and Kara Choate, the other director, they are big noise rock fans and they heard about us somehow and they're like, "I bet we can get this band score the film". And then we read it and they're like, do you want to be in it? And I was like, yes! And so I was originally supposed to play the cop and then the guy playing my role fell out, they put me in that role instead. They’ve since made three films, I’ve been in all of them!

Maybe you should suggest them, the names of the films.

Raygun: Oh, "The Awkward Stage" and then "Salt of the Earth" is the new one that's not out. I don't know where you're going to be able to find these movies, but Tenkiller you can find. Good people!

That's nice. And a little bit later than this release, it came your first Roadburn experience, and I think that this festival has embraced you since the beginning. It gave you an opportunity to play on a big stage in Europe. And now you're also releasing this live show on vinyl. So what is the importance of the festival for you?

Cap’n Ron: This was our first show outside of the United States. We Got our feet wet in the sea!

Raygun: It was the biggest show we'd ever played at the time. It may be still be up there. I don't keep track of the numbers of the people in the room, but I mean, damn, you saw the cover of the thing. I took that picture. There was a shitload of people in there.

Cap’n Ron: We had a lot of fun when we were here last time.

I think you're going to cap that tonight. And we're actually waiting to see you tonight on the main stage of the festival. How do you feel to get back? Are you prepared? Do you feel ready for this?

Raygun: It'll be fine. I'll try not to think about it too much.

This also initiates a big European tour for you, along with Agriculture and the HIRS Collective, which are very beloved bands in the festival. Are you visiting any new places? And second of all, what's your opinion and how did you discover Agriculture and HIRS Collective?

Raygun: We are visiting new places, even in the UK, which we've been to, we've never been to Birmingham or Leeds, we're going to.

Cap’n Ron: Brighton.

Raygun: Brighton, yeah. And then I've never been to Paris and we're going there, we're going to Milan, we're going to all sorts of Germany, Switzerland. Before this band, I had been to the UK once, and then with my mom, we have family up in Sweden, and we went and visited them once. That's all I've ever done over in Europe. Now I've been to lots of places. We're about to go lots of places, never once been to, so that'll be a lot of fun.

Cap’n Ron: Never in my life would I have thought that I would visit these places either, but it's like a dream come true.

Raygun: Even last time we were here, I didn't believe that this is no big deal for me, just to come back to Europe and it’s a normal thing now. It feels so familiar in a way that is surprising to me, I did not think that I would ever in my life feel that way.

I really believe that you're going to be amazed if you've ever visited one or two Balkan countries. You're going to see so many similarities to what you're describing in your albums. I can promise that.

Raygun: All right! About HIRS Collective, I don’t know them yet. And we missed them yesterday in the festival. I'll be seeing them five times in the UK. I can't wait. I like them, you know, but we don't know them at all as peolple. I think Luther Manhole met them once, maybe. But Agriculture are good friends. We've toured pretty extensively with them a couple times now.

Cap’n Ron: Two, maybe three times.

Raygun: I keep forgetting that we're going to be touring with me and I can't wait because I love Dan, Leah, Kern, and Rich, man, are all the coolest. I mean, you like, have you heard that band?

They breathed new air into black metal for me. I fell in love with them.

Raygun: I agree. I agree. I'm not even the biggest black metal guy, but they are doing something about it.

Yeah, me neither. And they're like, yeah, you should listen to this thing we’re doing. We're taking the genre back from fascists.

Raygun: Yeah, yes. It's awesome. And yeah, Leah is a great front person.

In general, are you avid music listeners? Do you have any newer bands that you would like to recommend?

Cap’n Ron: I don't listen to as much music as I used to. Stuff that I listen to these days is just like, 70s jazz fusion kind of stuff. So I don't really listen to much more music.

Raygun: We're both 40 and you just kind of, when you get up here, you start realizing that like, you just return to listening to the music you liked when you were 15 still. When I try to think of a new band, I immediately think of Brutus. We saw them a couple years ago and I loved them. I would love so much to tour with Brutus, honestly. Shout out to my friend Carson's band, The Calous Daoboys, too.

I'm waiting for their album like crazy!

Raygun: I've got it. I've had it for months. It is insane. It's like when you look at somebody's beautiful, hand-drawn artwork and you're like, how did you do something this intricate? That's how I feel about their album. How did you conceive this thing?

Combining all the genres, more approachable than the previous.

Raygun: Yeah, because they go harder than they've ever gone before, but then they go like, softer and more melodic than they've ever gone. It's really terrific.

When I listened to "Lemon", I was like, yeah, this is Rob Thomas playing Mathcore.

Raygun: (laughs)Yes, I know. I love it personally. I think "Lemon", is a terrific song.

So what about us having the pleasure to see you in Athens? Do you have any plans to tour in the eastern part of Europe? Because I know it's such a hard thing to do when you come from the USA.

Raygun: I have no idea. We have a booking agent who kind of handles it for us. I mean, if they ask us, we'd all love to do those places. It's not exactly me who decides. But I'd love to go to Greece. I would love to go to Athens. I think our friends Touche Amore were just there, right?

Hosted by a good friend! Yeah, and I really love the band too. I think they had a pretty great time!

Raygun: Jeremy had a super good time. He was telling me about it!

I think they were expecting less people, but audience supported it so hard. It was a cool show. So what does the future hold? You've told us about a new collaborative album.

Raygun: Yeah, with Hayden Pedigo. He's another artist to check out. He's got a new album coming out that's also amazing. So yeah, Hayden Pedigo, look out for the both of us!

And one last thing to close the interview, whatever you like to share!

Raygun: "Sinners", go check it out! I don’t know how after those Marvel movies you choose to do something like this and you knock it out of the park! Let’s sum it up this way!

Cap’n Ron: And kids, watch more movies!