Audrey Horne: "To try to become a 70s band is interesting for ten minutes"

For approximately 20 years now, Audrey Horne have constantly been of my favorite bands out there, through all the different musical paths they’ve followed. They started out with a more modern/alternative heavy approach on their first three (amazing) records, they continued with a more straight-forward hard rock direction on "Youngblood", "Pure Heavy" and "Blackout" and now with album #8 they seem to continue with the more 80s hard rock & heavy metal approach they showcased in "Devil’s Bell". But, as always, they do it with their own, fresh and unique way. Αnd once again they deliver a fantastic album with "Achilles".

Of course, I couldn’t miss the chance to talk with Toschie - one of my absolute favorite guys out there in the music world - and ask him about as many things as possible, regarding the current status of the band, how they manage to change without actually changing, the making of the newest album, "Achilles" and the meanings behind the songs among many topics.

All these questions that I had - but, mostly, the interesting things and stories that Toschie had to share - couldn’t fit to a single/standard interview course. So, brace yourselves, this is a long-read! But it’s totally worth your time, as Audrey Horne deserve all your attention!

Hello, sir.

How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm fine too. I was thinking that it's a bit unnecessary to tell you how happy I am every time we get the chance to have a chat.

Yeah, cool. Me too.

Even more so, because it usually coincides with the release of a new Audrey Horne album, which is great news in itself.

Yeah, good, good.

So how are things going both on a personal level and within the band?

It's going good. The band is good. We're all quite busy. Now on a on a personal level, it gets a little trickier to make the puzzle being in a band, because everyone's pretty busy with things on a private level. But we're all doing well, and the band is good. I think we managed to make a good album.

Yeah, you did.

Yeah. Have you heard it?

Of course. We'll talk about it later on. I have too many questions about it, but the bottom line is that it's great as usual. And I was thinking I'd be a pretty little liar if I said I didn't like it…

You didn't like that?

It's always tricky to make an album, because you work on the songs for such a long time, that at one point you come to that part where you start doubting it

I'd be a pretty little liar if I said I didn't like it.

Oh! I thought you said you didn't like that song. I'm glad you're not a liar! (laughs)

Yeah, I'm happy with the album. I think it's good. It's always tricky to make an album, because you get so stoked up in the work and you work on the songs for such a long time - you record them and you mix and you listen and you listen again - so at one point you always come to that part where you start doubting, like "Is it really that good or are we the only ones that think this is good because we've been so soaked up in it?". But everyone who's heard the album has liked it. So I guess it's a good album.

Sometimes, because I'm such a big fan of Audrey Horne, I try to challenge myself to see if I am objective with each new album. But the feedback I've gotten from other guys in our site that have heard it -and are not necessarily as big Audrey Horne fans as me - is that they are all excited. Maybe even more than the last few records…

Yeah, I think this album is the best we've done in quite a while. I'm proud of "Devil's Bell", but in hindsight there are a couple of things with that album that I'm not that happy with. But in general, I think it's a good album. It's done and we released it and I'm proud of it. But later on you always go like, "Maybe we should have changed that, maybe we should have kept that song out. Maybe we should have put in another song", all of that. But there's no point in thinking like that because it's out there.

When we make an album, our pride takes over and we have to make the best album we can do

Personally, I don't think you've ever put out a bad album or a mediocre album. So it's more about details or about personal taste of the listener as far as what he prefers most in this album or that album. But you always deliver something that is qualitative, and I always get a feeling like "That's how it's done. We know what we're doing with our staff".

Yeah, I hope we do. When we make an album, we are never in like "Let's just make an album. If it's not the best album, that doesn't matter. Let's just put out an album". Our pride takes over and we have to make the best we can do, which I guess most artists do. But I know from reading biographies and by just listening to albums, there's always bands that have long careers, all of a sudden they have an album where you can hear that they lost interest. And then they might find that interest again later on and start making good albums again. But, some bands just lose interest and put out a bad album and then another bad album and then they just call it the day because they realize themselves that there's no point in this anymore.

It can also happen because on one hand there are contract obligations on the other hand maybe things internally in the band aren't good or inspiration doesn't strike. It's a difficult balance, but you have to deliver something because you're under a contract. So sometimes this compromise may not end up really well. And I understand it. But I don't see that rush and that feeling in any of your releases so far.

No, we never had that. I think there's a couple of things that is good for us. One is that we split all the money equally, no matter what we make money out. If it's merchandise, if it's a copyright thing, whatever, we split everything in five. Which is good because then you eliminate the money issue, which for a lot of bands becomes a big issue. And the other point is that we have a very good record deal, with a good label. So there's not much that we are forced to do. We have a lot of freedom. Like every time we make an album, they don't ask us about the music. They just ask us "When are you planning to make a new album?" And we say "Yeah, we started recording. We're going to start recording now". And then they don't hear the album until the album is done. So that gives us freedom to do things our way. So we don't have to compromise. It's never like you have to deliver. Like if you're a big band, then the label would often put pressure on you. You have to deliver like a hit single. We've never had a hit single. We're never going to have a hit single. We just make good albums. That's what we want to do. So there's not much pressure on us from the label at all. We have a lot of artistic freedom, which makes it easier to make good music, basically.

Regarding the hit single, times have changed. You may see one day a TikToker uploading one of your songs and then suddenly it becomes a hit single, 10 years after you released it. Or someone that is influencing people through the internet, finds out about "Youngblood" and suddenly you’re like "Oh, what happened now?".

That's how we plan on making money in the long run. Like, at one point we will be rewarded, we will have like a TikTok hit and the money will flow.

Naahhh, you're too old fashioned. You expect guys like me to love you to the core. And hopefully it's a lot of us rather than a few of us. I think that's your way.

Yeah!

We change without changing really

But one thing that really strikes me, almost every time and with this album in particular, is that I get the feeling that as a band, you change without actually… changing. Like, you have a certain core of values and influence that remain constant, but there is always something that shifts a little. Do you agree with that? And if so, is that something that you do consciously or it just happens naturally?

No, I agree with you. Well, when you make an album, you want to make a new album. You don't want to make like "Devil's Bell Part II". So we're always open for other influences. But it's not a conscious thing because we just write music.

What changed this time, which I realized that this is going to be good for the album, was the fact that on "Youngblood", our bass player, Espen, he wrote a good bunch of the material. And then on "Pure Heavy", he wrote a little bit and then he just stopped writing for us for various reasons. He just didn't feel creative. He was just like "I'll play and I can come up with ideas on songs, but I don't feel I have any like a song to deliver". And especially on "Devil's Bell", he didn't participate much on the creative part, really. But on this album he just came with song after song and he even wrote lyrics. A couple of the lyrics are written by Espen, which hasn't happened in this band before, it has always been me writing the lyrics. So when he came up with song ideas and with melody lines and with lyrics and everything I was just like "This is great, this is good", because this is something fresh as opposed to me and Arve and Thomas writing everything. As a band everyone is involved in writing, but coming up with the main ideas has basically been Thomas and Arve and I come up with all the melody lines and the lyrics. But on this, Espen participated a lot, which gave it a new angle, so to speak. And I think you can definitely hear on this album that there are certain elements that are new, so I would agree with you: we change without changing really. Because the core is there, it's not like "Oh they've gone a completely different direction", it's more about changing certain elements. But the core stays the same, so I agree with that.

If I can be a little more specific with something that started with "Devil's Bell" and continues with "Achilles", is that there is a slight focus on the first three Iron Maiden album as an influence, or as an inspiration point, shall I say. But you're not limiting yourselves to that. Do you agree with that? Or is it just me?

Yeah, basically before we started Audrey Horne, Espen, Thomas and Arve did a tour with Paul Di Anno where they played in his backing band, which of course influenced them quite a lot. And not too long ago we did a gig where we only did cover songs from the two first Iron Maiden albums, which was part of a small Iron Maiden fan festival here in Norway, with cover bands. We were asked if we wanted to do that and we were like "Why not?". And then the day before the show, I got a bad case of the stomach flu, and I was just lying in bed vomiting, so I couldn't do it. I called the singer from Sahg and I asked him "Could you step in on a gig tomorrow? Do you know any of the songs from the first Iron Maiden album?". And he was like "I know them all". So he just stepped in. I didn't get to do that show, but we rehearsed a lot.

The last couple of years that has influenced us a lot, because for many-many years we've been listening to the Bruce Dickinson era of Iron Maiden. But, lately, it's been a lot more the Paul Di Anno era again. I think on this album, there are certainly songs that are more influenced by the Paul Di Anno era and then there's one song "Hell is Eternity", which is more Bruce Dickinson area inspired song I would say.

To try to become a 70s band is interesting for ten minutes

I'll ask you about later about this song, as I have almost one question for each song to make. But before we get to the songs I want to make a statement rather ask another question and see if you agree. You mix hard rock and early heavy metal stuff, but your sound is fresh and modern. And I think that this is a very important distinction, because most bands try to recreate the sound of the past. And in my opinion, very few actually do it well to make it genuinely interesting. You don’t seem to fall into this trap.

No! But, that's because we don't find that interesting. To be inspired by the past is absolutely necessary when you play music, no matter what kind of music you play. It's like being a carpenter or an architect. You have to be aware of the history of what you're doing. And you have to learn from the history, because so much of the foundation of what we are doing today was made long time ago. So in my mind, you have to be aware of your history and take inspiration from it. But to try to recreate history is another thing which is not interesting, really. Because it's been done, and that was a time. And when you see bands that dress up like it's the 70s and they have sound like it's the 70s and they act like it's the 70s, then I'm like, "But it's not the 70s". The 70s was a time and there were certain things in culture in general that inspired what was created back then.

Today we are inspired by so many other things that didn't even exist in the 70s. So, to try to become like a 70s band, this is another thing. That's interesting for ten minutes and then I lose interest. As a band, we are a modern rock band, but our inspiration is not necessarily from today, because we find more in interested in music that was made in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s than the music that is made today, because we grew up then. So our understanding of that whole rock and roll culture is linked to that time.

You project it to a modern sound. You can make it sound fresh. That's very important.

Yeah, I think so too.

Drones and shutting down infrastructure without even entering the city or the country, is the Achilles heel of modern society

Now, going to the new album more specifically, let's start with the title of the album, because you're talking with a Greek guy. So why did you decide to call it "Achilles"? What does this title represent to you and why did you feel this is the right title for the album?

Well, it was partly an accident, because for that song the working title became "Achilles". And I'm not sure why. Usually, when we start writing a piece of music and we just record it quickly to get it on tape so we remember it. We usually just call it something that has an association or whatever. So it can be called "Fish and Chips" for that matter. It just doesn't matter. "Achilles" came and it stayed.

When we wrote the lyrics, it became apparent that the lyrics on a couple of the songs on this album is very anti-war and anti-fascism. And then, when we were thinking about the name for the album, we had different ideas and we decided that it should have just a simple title, something not too complicated in any way. And then we started thinking about "Achilles" and we were like "Why did we call it Achilles? Who is Achilles?". We knew, of course, who Achilles was, but we started going like that whole story is fits to how we see the world today with modern technology and everything being digital and up in clouds and how warfare are done these days. With drones and with shutting down infrastructure without even entering the city or the country, we could just remotely shut it down, which sort of is the Achilles heel of modern society. Everything that we think is a blessing and makes our life easier is also the thing that can be a weak spot in a way. So, it kind of just fitted. It's not really that philosophical, the whole thought behind it. It's more that it was an accident that we found useful in a way, to put it that way.

It worked, so it's okay.

Yeah, we told the label "Don't try to make this into like a whole philosophical thing because then we would have trouble trying to explain it"…

It would be funny to come up with a different story with each journalist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. After you, I'm gonna tell a whole different story. Who's telling lies here… (laughs)

And then this is the most adventurous track on the album, and you decided to put it in the beginning. I think you consciously did that…

We did. When we started working on that song, I think me and Thomas said it almost at the same time. We were like "This is a killer opening track. We have to open the album with this". And then Arve was like "No, maybe we should do "Insanity" because that has sort of an intro". But we did that on "Devil's Bell" and we did that on "Blackout". And we did that on our third album. So we were like "If we want to refresh ourselves a little bit, maybe we shouldn't open in a way that we've opened like several albums now". And we also did that on "Youngblood", of course. And I love an album when you put it on and just go "boom" and it starts. So we were like "This has to be the opening track. It's a perfect opening track."

And for those who care about these details, the intro became the opening of the second side of the LP, in an old fashioned way…

Yeah. That was also very conscious. As soon as we decided that this should be the opening track, then we were like "Then, of course, "Insanity" is the opening track on Side B". Without question.

All of these people trolling the Internet, writing shit… If someone does something, you have to come with a bad comment and drag it down, which I never seen the point in. If you don't like it, move on!

One of my favorites, if not my favorite track on the album is "Vampires". And I'd like to know what the song is about. And I'd like to state that this Maiden melody at the middle would make Steve Harris very proud.

Okay, cool. That's funny because that's the song that I've never really seen as very Iron Maiden-ish. I get a very Ronnie James Dio vibe from it, like the band Dio…

The song "Vampires" is about how you have people around you that suck you for energy and will pretend to be your friend and then they're only really after something. One of us had a personal experience with that. And when I started writing about it, I got the image in my head that's like a real life vampire. They will suck you dry, because so many people need to put other people down to feel superior themselves. Like all of these people trolling the Internet, writing shit… If someone does something, you have to come with a bad comment and drag it down, which I never seen the point in. If you don't like it, move on!

I'm glad you like that song so much because I love it too. I think it's a good song. It has a dynamic without having a very visible dynamic. It just kind of goes straight forward. But there is a dynamic within it, which I like the subtleness of it.

I always loved it when I heard albums and all of a sudden the guitar player or the drummer sings a song

I adore it! But, then, on the other side of the spectrum, you know, you have "God Damn Beautiful". That sounds like a tailor made a hit for your live shows, and it has more of like an AOR, hard rock element. And like, okay, you told me about Espen's contribution, but he shouldn't get your job, right?

Espen came into our rehearsing room and he picked up an acoustic guitar and he said "I have an idea for a song". And he played it for us. And both me and Arve were like "Wow, that's a good song!". And then he said "Well, you can write the lyric, but you shouldn't change this and that. I like God Damn Beautiful. I think it should be like in the lyric". And I asked him "Well, if you have an idea for the lyric, why don't you write it?". That was the first lyric he wrote. And then he wrote it and then we were going to record it and I didn't remember exactly what he was singing. So I asked him like "Can you just like sing it in and then I can listen to it?". And he was like "Yeah, yeah, sure!". And then he sang through it. And me and Arve were like "Maybe you should sing it because it's not going to be the same if I do it! And it sounds really good". But I told him "This is a one off. You don't get to take my job, but you can you can do one song. That's okay"… (laughs)

I also like to get back to what we talked about, changing without changing. That was sort of one of the things that I felt was to be a fresh breath of air in the album that someone else was singing. Because I always love that myself. I've heard albums and all of a sudden the guitar player or the drummer sings a song and I’m like "Oh fuck! Wow! He can sing too! Cool!". It’s probably gonna be a good live song too because it's our live shows are really about connecting with people and having a good time. And that song is all about having a good time.

So let's move to the next track and my next question, because unless I'm missing something, apart from the track "The End", which was a bonus track on "Blackout", it's been many years since you wrote a ballad like "Pretty Little Lies". And am I right, that?

Yeah, I think the last time we wrote something like that was probably "Sail Away"...

We grew up listening to heavy metal bands doing ballads

Yeap. And, of course, that was the first song that came to my mind musically, while the title might bring "Pretty Little Sunshine" to mind. But, musically it reminded me of the wonderful "Sail Away" from your self--titled album. And I got to say, you've got a thing for those songs and they suit you really well.

Thank you! We grew up listening to heavy metal bands doing ballads, like "I Remember You" by Skid Row, "Home Sweet Home" by Motley Crue, all of those. So we always had a really soft spot for ballads that are a bit over the top. You know, we want them to be sort of dramatic in a way. And actually, when we wrote "Pretty Little Lies", originally it was not a ballad. On our subtitled album there's a song called "Firehose" and it was more like that. It was like heavy, mid-tempo thing. And then we worked on it. It was cool, but it was like when you have something and you feel that this is good, but it's not really good enough? So we tried to come up with different parts. And then Espen called us and said "Hey, I made an intro". And he was thinking… Have you heard Paul Stanley's solo album from 1978?

Not really.

You're not a Kiss fan.

No, not a big Kiss fan.

There's a song there called "Tonight You Belong to Me". But anyway, he wrote a very slow intro to that and I liked it a lot. I was like "Yeah, this is going to be really cool with this intro. It might make the song more interesting". But then Espen started singing something on that intro just for fun and I was like "Wait, this is interesting!". And then we started working on that and we realized maybe this is not an intro. Maybe this is actually the verse. Maybe this song should be more… slow. What we did was that we used the intro as a verse and then we took out the more groovy, heavy thing and then we were going to write a chorus. But Espen had written like a solo part for it. And I was listening to that and I realized this is actually a very good chorus if you put vocals on it. So I made vocals for the solo part and then we ended up using that as a chorus. So that song was not typical…

Because sometimes you sit down and just you write a song. But, sometimes you make a song by using different parts were you’re like "Oh, this goes well with this part! Oh, we don't need that part. Let's throw that away". I think it turned out really well. I like the ending part where it gets a bit more heavy, because it gives it some more dynamic.

Our problem has been that we've written ballads, but we hardly ever played them live. It's only for the last couple of years that we started playing "Sail Away" live again. Because for some reason we always felt that we're good at making them, but we're not good at playing them live. But that was just because we really didn't try hard enough. So we worked a lot more and "Sail Away" has been on our setlist for the last couple of years and it works really well as a live song. So I'm guessing this is also going to be good for our live shows.

When you have a new album, you want to play as much as possible from the new album, but at the same time you have to mix it. Because I know what it's like to go to a concert with a band and they don’t play all the old songs that you love and they just play their new stuff… So, when we start touring in October we're probably going to do like maybe five songs from the new album and then the rest. So, I'm not sure if we're going to play "Pretty Little Lies" live on this tour, but probably on the next one.

 And the reason it's called "Pretty Little Lies"… In the song we sing Twisted Little Lies, but as you know we have "Pretty Little Sunshine". When you master the album, then you have to put in all the the data, like the name of the track, how long it is and all of that, because that goes into the mastering, so if it's a CD it comes up when you play the CD. Arve sent over the title of the tracks and in his mind he probably had "Pretty Little Sunshine", so he wrote "Pretty Little Lies". And then when we got it back I was like "But it's not called Pretty, it's called Twisted Little Lies". And he was like "Oh fuck! We can probably change that". And then we called the guy who mastered it and he was like "That's too late". So we were like "Okay, then it's called Pretty Little Lies".

So, it was an accident! Because I was thinking if there is a sequel or something, a connection between the songs that I couldn’t get...

It's just an accident. It's just over not paying attention.

It’s interesting to hear new stuff, but when you see a band that you don't get to see often, you want them to play more of their classic songs

I had this question down the line, but since you mentioned about the live shows, it must be a headache… Because when you put out good albums and they have good songs on them, then you want to play the new songs, but you have already enough good songs that people want to hear from your past catalogue. And then there are only two options. One is to make your set lengthier and the other is to disappoint some fans...

I know! It is a tough choice sometimes. I remember I went to see Iron Maiden on "A Matter Of Life And Death" tour and they played the whole new album. And then towards the end, they played "The Trooper" and "Two Minutes To Midnight" and a bunch of other songs. But I remember, because I hadn't listened a lot to "A Matter Of Life And Death", when they started playing, I didn't know the songs well. And then they played the whole album and I remember being so disappointed - because it’s interesting to hear new stuff, but when you see a band that you don't get to see often, and I don't get to see Iron  Maiden that often. If it's a local band, then it doesn't matter because you can see them in a month or so - and I remember me thinking "Why do they do this? They should play more of their classic songs". But I'm guessing people would think the same of us if we just played the whole new album. But, you're going to disappoint someone anyway. On every show, there's always someone going "Why didn't you play this song? Why didn't you play that song?" Well, we have like 8 albums out, so you can't play them all.

I know that. I'm just joking. I know it's a compromise that you have to make. It's just what it is.

It's what it is.

People who commit that type of crime, like murder, most of them are not necessarily bad people. They're just people who got into a desperate situation

Back to the album. Was insanity the obvious choice for the first single? Because it's a classic, powerful and utterly infectious Audrey Horne, I'd say. But, seriously, how did you come up with the idea of writing a prequel to How It Be The Name in the lyrics?

When I write lyrics, I usually I write melody lines. So, when I write melody lines, I just make up stuff, because I'm not focused on the words, I'm focused on the melody. But there's always something that sticks, like you keep repeating it, and then you keep singing it, and then there's always like a word or a sentence that keep coming back. And there was something, I don't remember what it was… there was something in that song that kept coming back, which gave me my association. And that was someone being on the run. And then obviously it's got a very heavy Iron Maiden vibe to it, the whole song. So, we were just talking and I said "This somehow reminds me a little bit about "Hallowed Be Thy Name", the lyric".

One of the cool things about "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is that you never get to hear what he's done. There's someone sitting in a cell waiting to be taken to the gallows to be hanged. And it doesn't say much about what kind of person he is, if he's good or if he's bad. And it doesn't say anything about what he's done, why he's being hanged. And, you know, people who commit that type of crime, like murder, most of them are not necessarily bad people. They're just people who got into a desperate situation. And then they ended up where they are. Of course, there are some people who kill just because they want to kill. But I guess most murderers are murderers by accident. It's just something that went wrong somewhere down the line and they ended up there.

Then I said to Arve "It would be cool to write about something what happened before". And we started talking about what he did. And then we realized that but that's what's cool about "Hallowed By Thy Name" is you don't get to know what he did. So, I decided to try to write something about what happened before, like a chapter before. It's not the first chapter it's not the chapter where the crime is committed, but it's the next chapter where he's on the run. And then you have "Hallowed Be Thy Name", where he's been captured and sentenced to death.

It was more like a fun project to try to take someone else's work and try to write something out of it. And I used some sentences from "Hallowed Be Thy Name" where I changed the sentence to fit. And that was on purpose, because I wanted there to be a connection. I didn't steal the lyric, but I took some parts and rewrote them to fit. Like, on "Hallowed Be Thy Name" he screams something like "God why have you forsaken me?" or something like that. And I wanted it to be different so I was like "If there's a God tell him to leave me be".  Because it was somebody so desperate that you don't really know what you're doing. You're desperate. And you want help, but you don't want help, to put it that way.

So to answer your question, it was more a little science project. I wanted to try to do it.

Then, I was thinking that it's good that you didn't think to make a prequel to "22 Acacia Avenue"...

Yeah, that can be ugly… (laughs)

I agree with you! You mentioned the last time that you were more inspired by Paul Diano's era, but you had one Bruce Dickinson era inspiration on "Hell Is Eternity". And the basic question here is "hell is eternity" or "hell is from here to eternity"?

(laughs)

At some point, Donald Trump is going to be out of the White House, but he's given the richest of the richest all the power now… And it's been justified that that the elite can do whatever they want

What are you trying to say with this song?

"Hell Is Eternity" is about…Some of the lyrics on this album is more about the state of the world today. But I guess throughout history, there's always times where you think that nothing's going to change. What's going on in Palestine, what's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in American politics these days, all of that. It's like you can't really see an end to it. Well, at some point, Donald Trump is going to be out of the White House, but he's given the richest of the richest all the power now. And even if they take him out of the White House, I think it's been justified that that the elite can do whatever they want. So I don't think that's going to change. Hopefully it will change, but I'm not sure if it will. The rich has always had the power throughout history. But now it's become more like they legalized it. So, it's more like they don't have to be ashamed of exploiting the poor anymore. And what's going on in Palestine is like when they fought World War and they said it was the war to end all wars. But it never is.

So, "Hell Is Eternity" is about that, that it seems like there's no end to all this misery. It's always going to be like this. Because humans, we don't learn from our mistakes, really.

Yeah, it makes sense. And I agree with you now that you’re telling me what it’s about. Back to some lighter things. I'm going back to discussing how perfectly you balance heavy metal and hard rock elements in your music. And you particularly do that very good in this album…

Thank you!

What I like about music, and about art in general, is that it doesn't necessarily have to follow a certain pattern. You can change direction, you can change color

And it's very very evident on "Running Through The Night". Because, it starts with some old school heavy metal and then in the end it turns into something that could have been written by Van Halen or Aerosmith, it’s more rocking. You balance it perfectly and it doesn't even seem that you change all the mood…

It has a lot to do with personalities of the five people in this band. Because we have a common ground where we agree and then we disagree on so many things… Not necessarily disagree, but we have different tastes and I think everyone brings something to the table. We love Slayer just as much as we love Van Halen. And it's never been a matter of trying to be a certain kind of band. We've always just wanted to write good music. And also what we do like is diversity and contrasts in our music, which is important to us, which makes us often go like in this song.

When we had that song, it was basically, like you said, a classic heavy metal thing. And then there's always going to be someone in the band that says "It needs something different. It needs a different element to it". And then that last part came in and originally it was supposed to be just a small part in the song and then go back to the beginning. But then we realized that a lot of the music that we like are stuff like that, stuff that changes direction. There's a song and then it changes direction. There's no law that says that you have to go back to your starting point. You don't have to go back there, you can do whatever you want. It's the same thing we did with on "Devil's Bell"… The last track there is called "From Darkness" which also has the same thing, as it changes direction in a way and then it doesn't go back, it just goes into to something else. And I like that about music. I like that about art in general, that it doesn't necessarily have to follow a certain pattern. You can change direction, you can change color, which I like a lot.

But thank you for saying that! Because to us that is important that we are able to make music that has different layers to it. And then sometimes you just like to write a song that's just basic and that’s ok!

But you do that well. That's what matters in my opinion.

Thank you!

It has become less important to become a big band

Getting towards the end of the album, I don't know if there is any musical similarity and connectivity, but what came to my mind while listening to the closing track was the band Ghost. And then I inevitably wondered "Why the hell haven’t Audrey Horne become that big as well?". Because, in a just world, you should have been a bigger band.

I don't know… I think Ghost is just way better at marketing… (laughs)

And also, of course, if we just quit our jobs and told our families that we're going to go on tour for 150 days this year, then we would be a bigger band. I think that has a lot to do with it.

But also, to us it has become less important to become a big band. I like where we are, because we get to do what we want and we get to do it on our own terms and we get to do it in an amount where it doesn't become like a day job. You don't get that feeling… "Okay, we have to do this, we have to do that". We don't have to make an album that is a success. When Ghost make a new album there's a lot of people behind Tobias that are like "We need this to be a success. We need to have a hit single, we need to have something in the marketing that grabs everyone's attention". And then it becomes something you have to do, not because you want to do it, but you have to do it.

And a lot of bands get lost along the way, because they stop making music that they feel passionate about, and they start making music that they feel their audience wants or on the market wants. So in many ways, it's good not to be a big band, because you get to do things out of passion and you get to do things on your own terms. We have a record deal where we basically can do whatever we want. Our record label, they don't hear any music before the album is done. We just hand them the master and say "This is our new album". And they trust us completely. The only thing they ask us is "When are you making a new album?". And we're like "Okay, we're going to start"… "Okay, cool". And then they keep going like "Is it done soon?". And we're like "No, it's not done yet". And then at some point we say "Here it is!". Not all bands can do that. Because a lot of bands have management and labels that interfere in the music thing. Also, money wise, these 360 deals that record labels hand out now… we have a deal where we get all of the merchandise from touring, they don't touch any of that money, that's all our money. So, we have a very good record deal and we have a very good relationship with our label. And since we started writing for "Youngblood" we decided that we're going to split all income in five, no matter what it is. If it's from royalties, if it is from from live shows, if it's from merchandise, whatever. Like, I write all the lyrics. I've always written all the lyrics, but we split the royalties for the lyrics in five. On this album, actually Espen wrote a couple of the lyrics, which is also a good thing. Personally, I could have made more money if I were like "I want my share". But that's where of a lot of bands start arguing and lose sight of what they're supposed to do, because of money. So we decided "Let's just make sure that that's not an issue in this band". I think all of these things are part of the reason why we make good albums.

Yeah, makes sense.

We don't need to do anything. We do it because we want to.

I want to thank you again for your time. You passed the twenty years milestone last year, cause it’s been twenty years since the release of "No Hey Banda", and I'm waiting for another 20 years of thriving and good music and good times. And please let's do something to bring to Greece for a show!

Yeah, we would love to go to Greece to play.

Yeah, I think it's near. I have a feeling it's going to happen. And it's going to be great