Ross Jennings: "This project is just about good songs and three musicians coming together and having a good time"

Last year a new project that emerged came as a surprise to the prog world, as Neal Morse recruited his old friend and former bandmate Nick D'Virgilio and Haken's singer Ross Jennings to form a new band in the style of Crosby, Nash & Young's voice-driven music. The result of the first album "Troika" was stunning and so the trio wasted no time, returning one year later with their second effort. "Sophomore" is another proof of the excellence of these three musicians, showcasing different sides of their musical personalities and the undeniable chemistry between them.

We had the chance to talk with Ross Jennings about the D'Virigilio, Morse & Jennings project, their new album, their songwriting approach, and how different it is to work with a band like this in comparison to being in a progressive metal band like Haken.

Also, we talked about Haken's amazing latest album "Fauna" and what the future holds for them.

Ross proved to be a lovely guy and he had many interesting things to share with us about all topics discussed and you can find them all below.

I'm really glad to have the chance to talk with you and I hope we have enough time, because I want to interrogate you about both the D'Virgilio, Morse & Jennings project Haken. In fact, I had the chance to conduct an interview with Peter earlier this year about "Fauna"…

Oh, nice...

I'm like a fan within my own group here!

… but, I also have a couple of questions for you. So, I want to congratulate you for your new album with Nick Virgilio and Neal Morse. Being a longtime fan of all three of you, I expected something good from the beginning, but "Troika" exceeded my expectations and now "Sophomore" I think it's equally impressive. I think it's even better, as a matter of fact. At least, that's my impression so far. So how do you feel about these two albums and particularly for the new one that's coming out in a couple of weeks?

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm also a huge fan, so I'm like a fan within my own group here! Because, when I started wanting to do this for a living, Spock's Beard were very much a band I was listening to a lot. Neal and his writings are a big influence on me and it's so cool to be part of this project.

It's funny what you said about expectations as well... Because if you look at the names that are involved, you'd expect something in the line of Spock's beard or Transatlantic or something like this, but it's a very different project. And I think now being put out in the world, people understand what this it. So, in that sense, when people are going to hear "Sophomore", they know what we're doing. And I think it's more relaxing in that way to not be disappointed or the other way.

But, it's really cool to be part of this and we're really pleased with the project. And, yeah, I love the record. Like, I can't wait for people to hear it. And it's a nice bridge between progressive and singer-songwriter style. There's some different flavours in between, so it's cool. It's a cool little project and it's been a lot of fun.

It's great to be part of a project which isn't prog rock necessarily

It shows that it's been fun… But let's get to the beginning, the inception of this project. If I'm not mistaken it was Neal that contacted both you and Nic for this project. So what were your first thoughts when he dropped the idea? Were you a bit reluctant in the beginning or did it seem like a great idea from the go?

No, I was not reluctant whatsoever. It was immediately "Of course, I'm involved. Count me in!" I was actually surprised to be asked, personally. So, yeah, it was a no brainer and I loved the idea. And like I said, it's great to be part of a project which isn't prog rock necessarily. It's actually been really fun to write music in a different way and work with different people. So, it's it was very cool and I'm so pleased Neal thought of me to be part of it.

So, as you said, there's a second album and now expectations of people are different since they've heard the first album. But why did you decide to put out an album so quickly? I know that you're all very productive musicians, especially Neal, but why did you want to have a second album in such short time? Also, were there any differences in the approach or in the making of this album in comparison to "Troika"?

First of all, I think the record label we're really happy with how well "Troika" was received. It's something quite fresh for that label. And so we asked them "How did it go? Did it sell? Did you get good feedback from this record?". And they were like "Yeah, we, we'd love you to do another one, if you've got time". And we immediately were really excited to present some of our material which doesn't get used in our other projects and would work perfectly for this trio. So, it came together relatively quickly, honestly. It's like in August last year were like "Shall we make another one? Sure!". And by December we had all the songs and pretty much started recording by January… So it was really quick, really-really fast.

It's just about good songs and three musicians coming together and having a good time making a record like this

Now, technically it's not a prog project, not a prog album, but then you all stand as prog musicians, and this album seems like non-prog music for proggers in some way. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, it's a nice relief from 20-minute epics and songs that are full of heavy riffs and long guitar solos and things like that. It's really honing in the short song format, for lovers of this kind of music. I think you can enjoy this if you're a fan of country music, folk music, stuff from sort of the Crosby, Stills & Nash era, which was really the starting point for this project. It's just about good songs and three musicians coming together and having a good time making a record like this.

In my opinion, if someone deconstructs a lot of prog songs – some of those 20-minute song you mentioned - he'll find a lot of stuff that are like the kind of music that you play here. So how different is it throwing bits and pieces in prog epic tunes in comparison to writing songs like the ones you have on these albums? Which approach is more challenging and why?

I think Neal and Nick write songs in a very different way to how Haken write music. For example, a lot of Haken music starts off with some riffs, obviously, but we piece things together on a laptop and kind of formulate the song that way, by putting lots of different ideas together on the laptop and figuring it out. But, I get the impression Neal always comes from the singer-songwriter point of view and a lot of his demos are him strumming along on his holidays and singing an idea. And it sounds more organic that way. So, those two bands are very different, they have different approaches.

But for me it's been nice just to actually write music in a different way which is more like "I pick up the guitar, play some chords and actually come up with some words on the spot". Which is very-very far from how I would work with Haken where lyrics come last. It just makes the song more personal when you're writing that way. You're forced to reach in within and think from the heart. That's maybe something that's happening in your life right now. And that comes across in this style of music. With prog rock it's a bit more calculated and I have to research things for lyrics and music. For example, I read books and watch movies and whatever, so I get the inspiration in a different way. So, if that makes sense really, it's just a completely different approach I would say. I can't really speak for the other two guys and how they approach their prog music, but that's the impression I get from Neal; that it really just flows through him and off it goes.

If there's a gap in the market there, then that's great. We filled that!

Now, I believe that the art of songwriting based around three vocal harmonies - like you mentioned Crosby, Stills and Nash, or maybe The Beatles and others used to do - it's kind of a forgotten art in rock music. Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any new artists following that path. Do you see it too? If yes, what could be the reason about that? Is it because it's technically challenging or is it old fashioned or what?

It's hard to say, isn't it? I mean… There are plenty of groups doing it and if you dig deep enough, you'll find them. In rock music… yeah, I guess it's less fashionable. Hard to say, but I'm a big sucker for nice vocal harmonies! If there's a gap in the market there, then that's great. We filled that! (laughs)

But, I don't know... What do you think?

I'm also a big-big sucker for vocal harmonies and I see the gap…

It's great that we're doing this and it's nice to actually approach this and think about it from a music theory point of view, like which notes work for our voices and things like that... It's not something we consider in Haken's music.

My roots are in arena rock. I love bands like Journey and Def Leppard

Well, let's talk about influences. I know that Neal is a big fan of Crosby, Stills, Nash, of The Beatles and so forth, but I'd like to know where you draw inspiration from. Because listening to this album got me into a rabbit hole and I started listening to Simon & Garfunkel, to Creedence Clearwater Revival, to America and such stuff. So is that part of your musical vocabulary as well?

Yeah, there's a big part of it. Anyone who knows me will know that I listen to everything. I'm in inspired by everything really. My roots are in arena rock. I love bands like Journey and Def Leppard and that stuff and that has great vocal harmonies in that music as well and maybe some of that has seeped through...

But I'm also a fan of country music. I'm trying to think of the vocal groups now that currently do this kind of thing… Little Big Town are huge at the moment, Lady Antebellum. These are Americana/country rock artists, but not rock bands. Well, pop groups basically. Yeah, they do good.

And then there's a sort of indie rock vibe that I'm sort of drawn to sometimes. Bands like Elbow… they were a big influence on one of the tracks from this new record actually. It's called "Weighs Me Down", which I wrote, and it was influenced by this UK band called Elbow that I'm a huge of what they do. They don't really lean on the vocal harmony stuff. It's very rare actually, but there was something about this tune which reminded me of what they do, so it's something to look into if you're not familiar.

It's funny, because I think this is one of the most American oriented songs on the record... And it's funny how one perceives the influences…

Yeah, well… There's another part of that song… well, there's a band called The Band, It's an old American band, in the late 60s. And they have a famous song called "The Wait". And it has similar stacked harmonies, so that's another inspiration for that tune as well... So, it's just a melting pot, a big casserole.

Now I was going to ask you about how "Tiny Little Fires" came about, because it's a wonderful track and surely one of my favorites. And I was sure it came from a xylophone, but I saw the video you put out, and you mention that you were playing with your son… So, inspiration to come from anywhere, right?

That's right. Yeah, as I explained, I was just noodling around playing with my son. He was he was like one year old. I had a one-year-old boy at the time and we have these little toy instruments to try and inspire him to pick up that from an early age. And I think I was just doodling, and some pattern came to me, and it evolved from there. Really got a bit sidetracked from my parenting duties…

Sometimes, it's nice stories or moments that make nice songs...

Yeah, it was a beautiful moment… And to capture that I quickly run to my office and started playing the notes and record it as a sort of demo. I'm glad that worked out.

The music that I was submitting at the demos to the band sounded more like Spock's Beard than the ones that they guys were submitting

Yeah, it did. Now, I have a feeling that we share a common love for Spock's Beard. In fact, I fell in love with the "V" album when it came out and I can clearly remember that the first thing that blew my mind was that vocal section in the middle of the "At The End Of The Day" track that goes "It begins, it believes and it sees for all time". And then "Snow" came out and it all evolved from there… So, are you also a fan of that period of the band of with Neal and Nick in the band?

That's a good point, actually! It's a really good point you're bringing up, especially when you talk about influences. And I failed to bring up Spock's Beard obviously. Yeah, they're a huge influence, now you mentioned it…

My entry point was "Snow" and I think the first track I heard was "Wind At My Back" and there's all those layers there as well and lovely harmonies. And then I went back and discovered their discography from there.

But, yeah, that section you bring up… there's plenty of moments scattered throughout the discography that you will find in these records as well. There's something about the way they write. And I think I've been influenced by that as well. In fact, I joked on the last record, when we did the interviews for "Troika", that the music that I was submitting at the demos to the band sounded more like Spock's Beard than the ones that they were submitting. So, it was kind of fun for me to give back that influence that I'd had from them and sort of come full circle in a way. I found that quite funny, and that the more proggier ones were the ones that were coming from me and that's quite amusing. But, certainly, I would absolutely agree with you. I love everything they've done with all the singers. It's such a solid band.

It's a real shame... maybe a blessing and a shame that they didn't catapult into bigger things. But when these kinds of bands become arena bands there's something lost I think. They held the dignity well throughout these years.

Yeah, but I'd wish Haken to become an arena band! And maybe after you have the success, then you can go back to smaller venues …

(laughs) Well, we've yet to play Greece, so we need to play in your country first before that happens! Those early intimate shows, they were amazing! And we're still playing those kind of shows when we there's plenty of territories that are new to us.

There's something very special about those 400-500 capacity venues

That'd be good for us if you'd come here…

We've toured a lot of mainland Europe and the US extensively, but there's still pockets in various parts of the world which we've yet to play as Haken. It's been nice recently at in South America. We played a show in Curitiba in Brazil, which was a very nice and intimate one and a couple of Mexico shows that were outside of Mexico City, with less people showing up, but it's been really fun shows to do. And we'd love to grow and become a huge band, of course, but there's something very special about those you know, 400-500 capacity venues where you capture something very special and energetic. We love that.

I have a couple of questions about Haken now. First of all, make a statement that I think is bold one. I think "Fauna" is your magnum opus…

Wow!

"Fauna" represents all Haken eras so far

And if you think of how great are the other albums that you've made, that's why I say it's a bold statement. But, that's how I feel about it time passes by and I have a I have a clearer view of the album. So, I'd like to know if you have you seen things evolving in a good way since you since you released "Fauna"?

Thank you so much! I really appreciate that! And, of course, we're super proud of the music that's on "Fauna". For us, it represents all our eras so far. Sort of the very progressive era where we started, that was our roots. I guess the more whimsical part of our sound. Also, the heavier aspects of our sound which we were discovering in "Vector" and "Virus". It's all on there. So, it's a great for us. It's a great presentation and a "best of" almost without having the hits you know... Yeah, time will tell with all these things…

Like a lot of people… there are a section of audience who feel like "The Mountain" is our Magnum Opus. There's people from the very beginning who still feel like we never did a better album than "Aquarius"… (laughs)

We still feel like we've got our best material still to come…

It's very hard to gauge from the inside, but we're proud of all our work and "Fauna". For us it represented everything so far. But, we still feel like we've got our best material still to come… So it's a strange feeling. I'm really honored to hear those words and hopefully time will tell and "Fauna" will be up there as one important record of our time or maybe something else. But we don't really think about that stuff. We're in the moment, we're creating and we just hope people enjoy whatever comes their way.

You are modest as you should be.. But, I'm just being honest with you and I think that it needs to be said… Now, I was reading the news about the "An evening with Haken" tour, where you'll be playing "Fauna" in its entirety and then some more. Will you play that in Europe so? If stars align, I' d love to catch you playing this show. Then again we have to do something to bring you in Greece for the first time, I think. It's a great opportunity… And Peter is half Greek. Doesn't that help? (laughs)

Indeed! It has to happen and it will be a big party when it does!

Yeah, we absolutely intend to bring that show to Europe. I guess we're just finalizing details, but I'm not sure when that will be announced… I don't think it's something to keep a secret about. We will bring that show to Europe, but I don't know the information, the details yet of that tour or when that will be. It will be at some point… I guess a couple of months later on that year, after the summer festivals or something like that...

All right!

And Greece… It's on the cards…

I think you have to come here. There is a growing fan base. I think it will be good…

What's the famous Wayne's Wayne's World quote? If you book them, they will come!

Now, I follow you on you know on your social media and I really love the fact that you are an active listener of new music and new artists. Not that kind of musician that still listens to those 30-years-old albums that he grew up with. I like the fact that you listen to new music, talk about it and promote it. So, what's the best things you've heard of lately and that maybe we'll end up on your end-year list for 2023?

Oh man, I'm dreading my top ten. At the at the moment, I was very excited by the Trevor Rabin album "Rio". That was amazing. That again was very eclectic. I think Steven Wilson's album is phenomenal, although I need some more time with it. I've only had one listen-through. I think I need to hear albums several times to give that kind of opinion.

I'm always forgetful with these things and I forget what's come out this year… (laughs)

Tesseract's album was phenomenal, off the charts! I Love that I think that will be in my top ten. What else? Remind me what came out this year...

Sleep Token maybe?

Yeah, there's a big movement. I haven't listened to it in a while, but when it came out, I was so blown away by that… I love the Sleep Token album. I also like The Winery Dog album… "III", wasn't it released this year?

Yeah, it was this year…

I have to go back over my list of my records. I've mentioned some recent ones, but yeah, there was there some great records that came out this year and I think it's gonna be hard to pick favourites…

"Fauna" maybe?

Yeah… I can't pick my own… (laughs)

I'm sure there'll be some hunger for some live shows and hopefully that will happen

I'll do it for you! (laughs) I wanted to know if you have any thoughts or plans to bring the D'Virigilio, Morse & Jennings project to a live environment? Because that would be awesome! All these vocal harmonies and you changing instrument and stuff all that stuff… If you'd do something like that how would you envision it?

We keep bringing it up and then nothing happens! So, I'm not sure! I think it would require an extra touring member to fill in some of the additional instruments that are on the record, but essentially, I think we could pull off like a small theatre tour. Perhaps start in the States and then see where it goes from there. But who knows? I'd love to do that. I think eventually it will happen… We're all together on the Cruise To The Edge in 2024. Big Big Train are on board, Haken are on board and The Flying Colors are also have a performance. So, we are all three of us are on the boat. And we've teased the idea of maybe just getting up for one night with some acoustic guitars and playing something impromptu, but we'll see…

But, yeah… based on how this record goes, I'm sure there'll be some hunger for some live shows and hopefully that will happen.

Let's say it happens… Pick two Spock's Beard songs that you'd like to play with Neal and Nick on stage!

Well, "June" would be the ultimate song to do as a trio!

Yeah! Good!

And just because it fits in with the vibe….Maybe… What's that song called? "The Color Of the Sun"…

"Further Than The Sun" from "Day For Night"?

Yeah, that's the one. Sorry. Really, that would be a good one to do. Maybe there's something else that I'm not thinking of.

If you had the chance to see my notes, I had first of all "June", then "Further Than The Sun" and third "Wind At My Back" which was mentioned earlier on. So we're on the same page…

Right, right. There you go. Oh, it's Distance To The Sun"… Neal has a lot of songs with Sun on the title… (laughs)

Neal has a lot of songs in general...

It could also be fun and a challenge to rework one of their bigger pieces and make it fit for this style. I don't know… Yeah. I'll think about it. I don't know. I'm just throwing ideas. The cogs are turning now…

Yeah, that would be fantastic! Ross, I have to thank you for your time. It was a privilege. I was very glad I had the chance to talk to you. I already expressed how much I love your work with Haken in general and "Fauna" particularly and, so let's hope that it brings you to bigger places and it brings you to sunnier places like Greece!

Thank you. It's crazy to talk about this stuff when there's so much going on in the world. And it doesn't seem important. But on the other side, hopefully the music that we're making and putting out there is the best we can do, right? So, thanks for listening and thanks for all your kind words. It makes a difference.

They're well deserved!

Fingers crossed for Greece next year!

Photo credit: Chad Hoerner