Bad Religion: "The key to having a good record is to make every song good"

 California melodic punk is going to be duly celebrated this summer on the day that Release Festival is going to host the very popular Offspring and the great Bad Religion. The latter have been around for 45 years and are among the bands that laid the foundations of this particular sound, so they can rightly be considered forefathers. Their influence on the melodic punk bands that have emerged after them is remarkable and evident.

In anticipation of their third visit to Greece, after two unforgettable ones in 1996 and 2010, we had the opportunity to chat a while ago with Brian Baker, the band's guitarist for over three decades. Brian told us how vividly he remembers the first time they played here, how work on their new album is going, why he feels blessed to be a musician, and what ultimately made Minor Threat, for whom he was also the guitarist, so great. The interview text has been preserved in the format of our telephone discussion.

Hello, Brian.

Here we are.

How are you?

I'm just waking up in Toronto, actually.

Are you on tour?

Yes, I am, Bad Religion has been touring with the Offspring across Canada for about a month. So we're still doing it.

…and we're going to witness this cooperation too, so, we're very glad.

Yeah. Well, the whole point of the Canadian tour is to prepare for our one show in Greece. So we're going to be extra ready.

I'm happy about that! My name is Pantelis and I am calling you on behalf of a Greek website called rocking.gr. I'd like to thank you very much for the opportunity that you are giving us for this conversation. Since you are visiting us in a couple of months for a show, after many years, I've got some questions for you.

I have answers for you.

I didn't want to switch on your camera, so it's up to you.

You don't want to see this. I just woke up.

Okay, I think that I caught some news about a year ago in the internet that you are entering the studio in order to record the successor to "Age Of Unreason". Can you give us some more details about that?

Well, we've done some recording and we have some songs, but we don't have enough. And most importantly, we don't have enough good songs. So we're going to wait until we have a whole record of really good songs. We found out over all these years that the key to having a good record is to make every song good. We have plenty of time for that, I think. Unfortunately, we're now in our second version of this fascist cartoon government where we live. There's plenty of more material, things you couldn't have even dreamed of the first time are happening the second time. So I think that maybe by taking too long to make a record, we will accidentally stumble into the greatest one we've ever made.

Your studio albums have become a bit rare, but they are constantly fantastic from start to end. And you said it yourself, all the songs are great. So what's the recipe? Is it that you only put out a record when you feel that you have something to say? Is it that you have been working with the same people for many years or something else?

I think it really is that you make a record when it kind of makes you. The way you become relevant is to stay curious and to take in new information and sometimes processing that takes some time. We're also very lucky that Bad Religion is a band that does not need to put out a record to go play music. It's not a business model for us, it's an artistic endeavor. It's about when you have something to say expressing yourself in a very traditional way. Sometimes records come quickly; sometimes they take seven years, who knows? The point is that they are honest expressions of deep thought and feeling and maybe that's the key. Also, we have a good singer. His voice is pretty good. That helps.

And he’s still is pretty good!

Singer's all right. Good record label too. Nice label. Good people.

We're very lucky that Bad Religion is a band that does not need to put out a record to go play music. It's not a business model for us; it's an artistic endeavor

What's the usual writing and recording process when you are making a record?

Well, Brett and Greg both have little studios in their houses and so they write a lot of songs independently. Then they kind of share them back and forth and that's where the rest of us come in. I live on the East Coast of the United States, near Greg. So I will come up and play on some of Greg's demos. Jay, Jamie and Mike will play on some of Brett's demos because they all live out on the West Coast. When there's enough stuff that really seems to be working, then we all get together and it's usually in LA just because it's three to two. That's when the process really begins and we do a lot of rehearsals and refinement and see what the best thing is. By the time we all get together as a group we have more ideas than we're going to put down and then it's about figuring out what's going to develop into the best songs. But the hard part is what Brett and Greg do on their own. It's pretty cool that both those guys can generate the kind of roadmaps that they do. It's just another great thing about just being the guitar player. I just let them do the heavy work and then I come in like Angus Young.

So there's a Bad Religion East and a Bad Religion West and when you're ready, you merge into one band.

Right, exactly.

Do you feel that a band like Bad Religion has one more reason to exist and to create as a result of today's world politics, or maybe US politics?

US politics obviously are pretty shocking right now, but this is just, as we've said all the time, the whole world is fucked up.

And we got three more years.

Yeah, we got three more years. One of the things that are wrong with America is that everyone in America never leaves and thinks America is the most important fucking thing in the world. And if you never get out of the country, you don't understand there's a whole world out there, that America is no more significant than all of these countries everywhere else. I could spend a lot of time with you discussing American problems, but Bad Religion discusses global problems. And these conflicts and these societal shifts have been true for thousands of years, and they will continue to be all over the world for thousands of years more. So there's no end of material for us.

I think that one of the blessings of being a musician like you is having the chance to travel around the world and to get in touch and in contact with so many cultures and so many people. That's a blessing, you’re very lucky.

It's the best part. It is. I am so grateful to have had the opportunity to get out of the country and see and meet other people and see how the world is. And it's crazy, but it just shows you how much everyone really is the same. It's nice. It would be nice if more people had the opportunity to do it.

The world would be a better place, for sure.

I agree. I agree.

So, do you feel that as an artist, your creativity is boosted by the situation by today's situation or not?

I don't know. If I were a lyricist, I might feel that having so much raw material would be helpful, but I'm really a music guy and creativity is elusive. You know, it comes when it wants and it doesn't respond to external pressure, at least in my personal case. It's just sometimes you get on these really great runs where you're writing and writing and writing. I think a couple of years ago, I made three records in one year and I was like, "how the hell did that happen?" It just comes and goes. Who knows?

One of the things that are wrong with America is that everyone in America never leaves and thinks America is the most important fucking thing in the world

During the pandemic, you did some streaming shows labeled Decades and you played a lot of your stuff from your catalog. What was it like to dig back to your catalog and play stuff that you have not played for many years?

Well, it was really fun. And in a lot of cases, we found out why we don't play those songs. Because some of them are a little weird or really hard to sing or just weren't that good. But when you’re locked down in the pandemic and you don't really have anything else to do, you're like, "hey, let's give track 13 off "Against The Grain" a shot and see what it was." So it was a great experience, but it also helped refine what we play now live, because we did find stuff that we hadn't played for a long time that now we do. And we also learned why we don't play certain songs. And it's all there for you to see. You can watch everything on YouTube and you can make your own decisions.

I have watched all shows and, as a fan, I liked them very much because I liked the fact that you visited so many songs of yours. It was very nice.

It was fun.

You know, by watching it, you could say that you were having fun.

It was great. I'm glad you could see that. Even when you watch us now, when you see us play, it really is fun and it's not bullshit. We really love doing it. I think that an important part of our longevity is that we're a bunch of old guys, but it is so much fun to do. And I think when you go see a band you can tell if it's work to them. And this is not work to us. This is a joy and a privilege to do. If you can see it on YouTube, you'll wait till you see it live.

You're middle-aged, not old.

Wow, okay.

Many bands do anniversary tours playing one of their records in its entirety. Has it ever crossed your mind to do so or have you even done so?

Yeah, we have. We've played all of "Suffer" and all of "No Control" a couple of times, but you kind of get into the same thing. It's like there's a reason why we don't play all of those records because some of the songs just don't really work. I get that as kind of a marketing thing that bands do and it's fine. But we have 17 albums out and when we play our show, it's our job to try to hit as many records that were people's favorites. I think that we have a responsibility to the people who have been fans for so many years. You and I could probably right now name 10 songs we have to play, that you can't not play or you're an asshole. If we only have an hour to play, there's no time to play "Against The Grain" from beginning to end, it just doesn't work. I think playing something from every record is more important than playing all of one record.

I agree. Maybe if a band has one album that stands much higher than their other work, then yeah, okay, they can do it. I don't think Bad Religion is such a band. You have many great songs to pick from many great records. So, is that what we should expect in the summer?

And you're very kind. Thank you. Yeah, that’s what you should expect, more or less.

You have visited us twice here, the first time being 30 years ago and the second one 16 years ago. Do you remember anything from these shows?

I remember the first one because it was my first time in Greece. And it was just… I mean, why do I need to tell you? Holy shit! What a privilege. I've seen an enormous amount of things in my school books all my life and I’ve read so many stories. I’ve had friends who were from Greece when I was growing up. To be able to be in that incredible culture and that dynamic society was so cool. We played this kind of weird venue and it was a crazy night. I remember there was smoke and so many people everywhere and it was just chaotic. It was really overwhelming and beautiful. And I have pictures. I actually recently looked at old pictures that I took when I was there on my first visit. Sadly, I don't remember the second one as much. It was nice, I remember being there and going through the islands and it was kind of upscale, but it didn't damage me in the same way as the first one did. The first one was like Motörhead, you know. I'm sorry it takes us so long to get back there, but you know, if I booked the bands, then I wouldn't have time to play guitar.

Our first show in Greece damaged me. It was like Motörhead

I was a bit young in the first one, but I attended the second one and I still remember many, many things. Can I show you a photo? You will understand why.

Sure.

Can you see the photo? I'm this guy and this is a friend of mine.

Oh my God. Yeah. Well, it was a big one for you.

It was just after the Bad Religion and before the Faith No More show. I was wearing a Faith No More shirt and I hugged him and left a stamp made of sweat on his shirt. Your show was very impressive for me – and not only for me. I have great expectations from this summer's show. We're waiting for you and we have been waiting for many years.

The good thing about waiting is we're the best band we've ever been. We're so much better now. I think it's just a lot of practice, but we've really got it down and it's so much fun to play. But also, I know we're just up there killing it. It's really a perfect time to see Bad Religion. I'm very proud of us.

It's great that you feel this way. I think that the way you feel, comes out on stage. The fans can understand.

Agree. Agree 100%. It is just such a pleasure to do it. I can't wait.

How do you see Bad Religion's future? How would you want it to be?

I want to be able to do this as long as we can still do it at a high level. And right now, we really can. There's really no plan. There never has been a plan for Bad Religion. Maybe we plan for one year, that's the most we ever do. It's like, "do you want to play next year?", "maybe." And we do. I think as long as it's still great, we'll do it. And I hope that we know when it isn't. But right now, it is good.

It is! Apart from Bad Religion, you have done a lot of other stuff. So, what's the current status of Dag Nasty?

Dag Nasty is sort of just resting. I don't remember the last time we played. We were doing some Dag Nasty stuff and then I got in this other band called Fake Names with Dennis from Refused. And that's been kind of my focus on doing extra bands because we're writing new music and we've done new records. We've done a couple of records for Epitaph with Fake Names and it's got some other guys from old DC bands that I grew up with. We actually have a new record that's coming out in the fall on Epitaph. A new Fake Names record.

Wow, okay.

Now that Dennis has kind of finished his Refused band, he has some more time to tour. So, I would love to do some Dag Nasty shows and I'm always up for it, but I like the idea of not just reenacting something old. I like doing something new and Fake Names is always new to us. So that's probably where I would go if I have time off from Bad Religion, I think I want to do something new and see what's out there. It's important to keep seeing what's out there. Keep going.

I think the last Fake Names record was about three years ago. So yeah, it's probably time for a new record.

And unlike Bad Religion, we already have this one done. It's been just waiting to go out.

So, did you grow up in DC?

Yeah.

You became a member of a band at a pretty young age – I'm talking about Minor Threat. Was there something in your upbringing that pushed you to do so, or was it something else? How come you played in a band at 16?

I was 15 when I joined Minor Threat. Yes, I was not an old man of 16; I was just a boy of 15. I had started playing guitar when I was eight years old. I and my best friend in school both got guitars for Christmas and that's when it started. I played in cover bands in grade school and in early high school, just playing Cheap Trick and, I don't know, whatever you played in cover bands in the ‘70s. So I had played in a band before, but Minor Threat was the first band where, first of all, I was punk. So I had that going for me. And also the first time making up our own music, which is a whole different thing than just doing covers. I had some experience, but very little. In my town, there were very few punks and even fewer who played an instrument. I got in Minor Threat because I think I was the only guy who looked punk and who knew how to play, who was not already in a band. I was like the last guy to get played, get picked for football. "Okay, we'll take you. You're the last guy." And yet here I am.

When you're not trying to create some kind of art, then something beautiful happens on its own

What's your fondest memory from that era?

There's so many, but I think the fondest is the idea that Minor Threat was just an after-school band. We would go to school and we would walk home from school and we'd go to someone's house, like the guitar player's mother's house, and wait for the other guys. And then Minor Threat would play in the guitar player's mom's basement, then we'd have cookies and Kool-Aid or Coca-Cola and then maybe go play football. It was just a thing kids did. There was no importance to it. There was no expectation. You do remember being that young, right? When you were that little, what did you do after school? You know, you go fuck around or go look at comic books and all of these childish things. And yet one of the most childish things we did, which was look like weirdos and play this aggressive music, is now what people still talk about. It's so fascinating to me that Minor Threat is still important to people. I'm proud of it, but also I think it's because it was so unimportant when I was a little kid. Skateboarding was more important, you know? So, it's funny how it worked out.

It felt unimportant, but it became important for many people.

And maybe that's part of why. When you're not trying to create some kind of art, then something beautiful happens on its own.

As a guitarist, who were your influences when you grew up? Was there a band or a musician that made you want to become a musician?

Well, I share a birthday with George Harrison from the Beatles. The Beatles also were my first band. I was 8 in 1973, the Beatles have broken up, but it's still everything. And as a guitar player, that was the first music I learned. "Yellow Submarine" was the first song I learned. I was also very lucky that my parents had good records and I soon discovered AC/DC. I got into them when I was like 10 or 11, in 1976 with "Powerage", I think.

"Powerage" came out in ’78 and it’s my favorite AC/DC record.

Yeah, so, I realize it's like not just Angus, it's also Malcolm. Malcolm is the real thing for me there. And so I've got that. And then, bam, I've got Eddie Van Halen. I never played like Eddie Van Halen, but it was about this whole new revolution of guitar. I think those are probably the big ones, though I never played like Eddie Van Halen, but I still try to play like Malcolm. I will never be as good, but I try.

So, Eddie Van Halen made you want to be a guitarist. You don't have to play like him; he can be an inspiration anyway.

I think he was an inspiration in being and doing something so innovative. You'd never heard anything like it. And yeah, I never tried to play like him. I never even had a vibrato bar. I just I just thought he was cool. Still is. He was cool.

Are you listening to any new music? Have you listened to any young bands that that you feel are great?

I like a band called End It from Baltimore, Maryland. I think they're great. They're fantastic, I really like them. There is also a band I like from Los Angeles called Niis that are very aggressive and cool. Now I'm 60 and I realize that when I think I know a new band, they've been a band for like 5 years. So I never know if they’re actually new, because usually I get it late and End It and Niis are two examples. Also, I think like a lot of us, I tend to listen to what you loved when you were just really finding your musical direction or you were in college or whatever. I'm still listening to the Clash, the Damned, AC/DC and Van Halen, it's still exciting to me and it's because it's my music. And what's so great is that I am aware how lucky we are in Bad Religion that there are many people where their music is Bad Religion. They've listening to Bad Religion for 30 years and it's still important to them. That's why we get to come to Greece and keep doing this and why we have got to respect that. I love to think that we are a milestone for a person, just like AC/DC is for me.

Malcolm is the real thing for me in AC/DC

"The Gray Race" is the first record that you played with Bad Religion. It also is one of the first records that I ever bought and it's very important to me. So, Bad Religion are one of the first bands that I have been listening to and I can understand the feeling of going back to the first bands that you have started listening music with. And the feeling is almost the same. So I can get that.

Good. We'll make sure to play some stuff from "The Gray Race" when we're there.

I'll be glad to listen to it. Regardless of their age, could you give me five records that you have been listening to during the past month?

I can, but while I'm slowly telling you this, I'm going to look at the name of this record so that I have it correct, because that's important. Well, I've listened to "The Crack" by the Ruts. I have listened to "Wrong Side Of Heaven" by End It. I have just listened to "2112" by Rush, because I've been on a Canadian tour.

You said you are in Toronto.

Yeah, so we're trying to touch base. I need two more. Well, I actually listened to all of "Another Perfect Day" by Motörhead very recently because I really like Brian Robertson, the Thin Lizzy guitar player.

And it's a nice era for Motörhead.

Yeah, it is. And oh, a record that's good that I totally missed out on is "Hackney Diamonds" by the Stones. Yeah, it was out maybe a year and a half or two years ago and I haven’t listened to it since then but I did and I was like, "this is good, it sounds like the Stones". So, those are my weird choices, a wild combination of Motörhead, Stones, and End It. Weird. I love it.

Weird is nice. That was all from me, Brian. I would like to thank you once again for the opportunity that you gave us to have this interview. We are eagerly waiting for you.

Great! Well, I'll see you then. Thank you for talking to me. I appreciate it.

I wish you all the best with the remaining dates of your tour. See you soon.

Cheers, bye bye!

Bad Religion are playing with the Offspring and High Vis on July 7^th at the Water Park, being part of the Release Festival. Tickets here.