Ray Alder: "We're exactly where we're supposed to be"

Here in Greece we have an undeniable strong bond with Fates Warning over the years, and so any new music that comes from Jim Matheos or Ray Alder is always more than welcome. Especially, when the two of them collaborate on a new project like North Sea Echoes.

So, we had the chance to talk with Ray and know everything about the formation of this new project, its musical direction and why this just couldn’t be a Fates Warning album. And talking about Fates Warning he gave us a few hints on some special and exciting plans the band has for its 40^th anniversary.

As always the love between Greece and Ray goes both ways and this lead to a very interesting conversation with a really great guy!

Hello Ray!

How's it going?

It's going well. How are you?

Thanks. Ι’m good. Busy doing a lot of interviews today…

Hope it's not too tiring. Sometimes it can be…

Yeah. I think it's been 17 interviews this week. It's like it's a lot, man. But, I'm always happy to talk to Greece.

You know you always have a special place in our hearts…

Yeah. And in mine as well, I missed it…Actually, my wife's parents are coming in a few months and we're talking about maybe going to Greece for vacation in a few months. We'll see…

You're always welcome here. And it goes both ways. We know you love us and you know that we love you and Fates Warning. So, that's another reason to be very happy to have the chance to talk with you.

Great! Thank you!

I would like to stay with one thing, but...

I was thinking that last year you had your solo album, which was really fresh, good and interesting in my opinion. And now you return with a new collaboration with the Jim Matheos, so it's like you're trying to keep yourself quite productive, aren't you?

Yeah! I mean, ever since the pandemic, we haven't toured. We haven’t toured in about 5 years. It's really, really, really sad. I mean I'm a singer. So that's how I would make my living. The only way to really keep going is to just keep writing and recording solo projects, A-Z. I worked with Glenn from Figure Of Speeches in that whole album with Sherinian and Bumblefoot and all those guys, it was cool. It was always just keeping busy. I don't want to over saturate. You know, I would like to stay with one thing, but... New projects keep coming up and I'm happy to do it. So yeah, that's the thing and if we can't tour, then I might as well continue doing it.

Jim says he doesn't want to work on any new Fates Warning, so I didn't know when or if we would ever work again, writing wise

Yeah. And it's also good because you are going to different directions with some of your projects and that's making it even more interesting.

Yeah, I don't think it would be interesting… I mean AZ is completely different than my solo stuff. My solo stuff is completely different than what I did with Jim. I think that's great. I need to spread it out. And of, course, I like to sing in different styles of music, so when Jim contacted me about doing this this project I was completely happy. Because Jim says he doesn't want to work on any new Fates Warning, so I didn't know when or if we would ever work again, writing wise. So when he did come to me, I was really excited and happy and it was just great to be working with him again. And I loved the music as soon as he sent it to me. I thought the music was great, I couldn't wait to get started. I'm very happy with it.

The one thing I was worried about was "Does it need vocals?". Because, I didn't know if it did. I thought the music was beautiful enough on its own

So if I'm not mistaken, the music for this project was initially supposed to be for his instrumental solo album, the second Tuesday The Sky album. So how did it end up as a collaboration between him and you? At which point did he reach out to you and said he wants some vocals and do it do something else with it?

The entire thing was written. All the music, it was already finished. He just contacted me one day and said "hey, I want to talk to you about something". And so we talked and he said that he had all this music, and he kept hearing vocals over the top of it. And he thinks that it would benefit from having a singer. And he asked if I’d be interested. I said "Of course, man. Send me the music!". And I loved it as soon as I heard it. The one thing I was worried about was "Does it need vocals?". Because, I didn't know if it did. I thought the music was beautiful enough on its own. And so that's how that came about. I don't know if he sent me the entire album or he sent me a few songs, but I picked the song "Open Book" first. I said I'll try this one and let's see if we're on the same page. And I finished that song in about four days, I think. I wrote the melody, the lyrics, I recorded it and sent it to him, and I think at that point we knew that we were thinking along the same lines and so we decided to do the entire thing.

Opeth could pull it off. I don't think we could. There's just no way we could release it as Fates Warning

OK. Along the discussions you had in the beginning, did you have any concern that maybe people will think that this is just Fates Warning in a different light?

Sure! It's still a worry. I'm still worried about it. I mean, after the interviews, people ask you "Do you want to add anything?" And I say "yeah, I want people to know that it's not Fates Warning. It's something completely different. It's Jim Matheos and myself doing something different. And we're not trying to be Fates Warning at all.

It was a moment where I was joking with him, when we were trying to come up with a name to call this thing, what to call it… And I said "you know what? It's you and me. So, why don't we just why do we call it Fates Warning?". And he's like "hmm…" both of us were like this for about 5 seconds. And then we said "No, absolutely not. It's just gonna fuck people off". Opeth could pull it off. I don't think we could. There's just no way we could release it as Fates Warning. It's just two different things. So we had to give it a different name. And again I want people to know that it's different. Of course, we're gonna have Fates Warning fans listening to it and that's amazing, that’s great. But I just don't want them to think that it's Fates Warning MKII. It’s just two different things.

I get it completely now. You mentioned the name. Who came up with the name North Sea Echoes? And why is it representative of your music?

Jim had it in his notes. Jim and I are the same. We write things down. If we hear something interesting or see something interesting, we'll write it down and maybe use it later for lyric or a song title or who knows... So we're going through different ideas for the names, and it was something he had written down and he doesn't know where he heard it or anything, but it just seemed to fit the music. It just fit the vibe of the whole thing. So, we went with North Sea Echoes and I think it's pretty fitting. Like the music is different…

I've always liked Jim's playing. It's his own mind. Whatever he hears in his head. I just have a thing that

Yeah, it's way different than Fates Warning, even if the vibes are there because it's Jim and you. Now, you said you liked it in the first place and you thought that it would sounded good even without vocals, so what did you think of this musical direction that Jim has taken with this album and with Tuesday The Sky?

I loved the Tuesday The Sky album, the first one. I have it actually! It's really good. It's beautiful music. It's really nice, it makes you feel good. I don't know why… but I've always liked the direction and I've always liked Jim's playing. It's his own mind. Whatever he hears in his head. I just have a thing that. I love how he plays and writes. So I don't know… For me it just hit me right away. The music hit me right away and I couldn't wait to work on it and hopefully improve what he had sent me. I hope I did…

Yeah, you did. You also have some drum parts by Gunnar Olson. How did does this happen? Did he also help with the production and stuff?

The drum parts were already written. It was electronic drums. The two songs that Gunnar plays on had originally electronic drums. Jim plays everything on the album: the bass, the electronics, the guitar, everything. And he programmed the drums and we had already finished the song "Empty", and we just said "I think it would benefit from having real drums", because it was like the heaviest song on the album. It's not that heavy, but it’s compared to everything else… We thought that with real drums we could make it a bit bigger than with electronics. And we talked about different drummers and we're both fans of Puscifer. We both like Puscifer very much. I saw them at Hellfest and they were just amazing. I was blown away. I think they were my favorite band out of all Hellfest. I think they're my favorite band. And Jim said "what about Gunnar?". I don't know if he knows him or how he knows him, but he got ahold of Gunnar and asked if he was able to do the tracks and he obliged right away and got it done. Great drummer. Amazing job. I’m really happy to have him.

Yeah, it did. Now, to say that your and Jim have a long history together would be an understatement. But, you personally have done quite a few things outside Fates Warning, like Engine, Redemption and your solo works. So, how different is it for you to work with and without Jim and how different was this project in comparison to your usual collaboration with him on Fates Warning?

I mean, it's always different working with different people. Working with Nick on Redemption was obviously completely different than everything else. He had everything written, he had the melodies written, the lyrics, everything. And it was a lot of fun working with him. We would record for an hour or two and then we were like "let's have some Scotch. We'll do it tomorrow". And though it was very serious what we did, we took it a bit light and had fun.

For my solo stuff I take my time. I work with Mike and Tony and it's fun as well, but it's a bit more concentrated. With Fates… it's definitely my most concentrated music when I work with that one. We've worked together for so long with Jim and he and I can be completely honest with each other. If there's something we don't like, we'll definitely tell each other and do our best. It's at the point where we're not going to hurt each other's feelings. No, no, no…. We’ll do something else. And that's great. I just love working with Jim. Again, he's brutally honest and I think we think pretty much along the same lines. So that definitely helps I think.

Imagine being 500 meters underwater, alone with a thin piece of metal around your head. It's pretty scary

Now, let's get to the artwork of the album because you had Simon Ward, who's behind Marillion's artwork and he’s also responsible for the North Sea Echoes artwrok. So, what's your opinion about his work on your album? Did you end up working with him because of his work with Marillion or was it something else that drew your attention?

I think he had been on the Kings of Mercia album and Jim knew him. We talked about different artists and different ideas and we even talked about doing it ourselves. Jim and I actually came up with some of our own artwork. And it just was becoming we were losing the focus on what we're doing music wise, so we thought we would just give it to somebody else at that point and let them take charge of it instead of us. And we'll concentrate on the music and let them worry about that. He came up with the concept of the diving bell, which is pretty cool. It's just different… Imagine being 500 meters underwater, alone with a thin piece of metal around your head. It's pretty scary. He came up with the idea and I think he did a great job. It’s really cool...

Now there is no denying that this album is a deeply emotional album. Would you agree with me that this is one of your most emotional works? Possibly your most emotional work in many years now.

Uh, probably. I did touch upon quite a few sensitive subjects, one of depression and cheerophobia, again the phobia of being happy. Which is very strange. When I heard the music I just said I'm going to let it sort of write itself. And those are the subjects that that were coming to mind when I was writing the lyrics. Yeah, they're pretty deep. Maybe too deep. People say it's like very sad. I don't mean it to be sad. I think it's just basic human emotion. Maybe you're some people are afraid to speak about it, you know? But it is what it. And I'm just hoping that some people can relate emotionally to what I'm what I'm saying with my lyrics.

If you ever read the lyrics of an Alice In Chains song, that's pretty fucking dark, man! And I don't hear anyone complaining about that

Yeah, in general, your lyrics are very intimate and human. Is it mostly because you feel that way or is it because you want people to relate with them, like maybe give a helping hand through your lyrics?

I'm not really trying to make a statement or change the world. For me, it's just words that came out and I wrote down. I'm really not an unhappy person. It's just for some reason the music just made me think of these words and so I wrote them down. Of course, all the songs are different.

"Open Book" is about the passage of time, aging, and realizing that you’re not as young as you used to be. We all realize that I think. Once you crack 50, you start thinking about that a bit more. Maybe not… (laugha) Again, they're pretty deep maybe people will relate to them or not.

There's a million songs I listen to it I have no idea what the words mean and I just sing them. I don't even think about it. But it's funny when people say it's sad. It's like if you ever read the lyrics of an Alice In Chains song, that's pretty fucking dark, man! And I don't hear anyone complaining about that... (laughs)

It's quite funny, because I remember reading some people interpreting the lyrics of "Open Book", and of course it's the unavoidable someone would say "Oh, they're talking about Fates Warning" and moving on to something new…

(laughs) No, I'm not talking about Fates Warning on that one.

I will say… "We Move Around The Sun", that one is actually… I've never told anyone this… but that one is actually about the band, about us traveling on tour, in a tour bus. And it's basically my thoughts of us being on the bus, making memories as the years go by.

Not to be so self-involved, but we wrote the music for ourselves. We didn't really write it to make anyone else happy or with the idea that we're going to be huge

Now, do you consider North Sea Echoes as the beginning of a new band, or you approach it probably as one-off thing, and you'll see how it evolves from here?

Exactly that! I mean, when Jim sent me the music and I started working on it we got maybe 5 songs or whatever. Then we kind of looked at each other and said "What are we doing? Are we doing an album?", "Do we release it ourselves? Do we put it on a label?". "Do we give it a name?". We didn't really know...

And so it came to this now that the album comes out at the end of the month. We didn't discuss playing live. We didn't discuss if we're going to do another one. I guess we'll just kind of see what the public thinks. Funny enough, and not to be so self-involved, but we wrote the music for ourselves. We didn't really write it to make anyone else happy or with the idea that we're going to be huge. We did the music for us, because it made us happy. And we just hope people enjoy it. It depends on how it's received. And then we'll see what happens after that.

Now, are you considering playing some shows with North Sea Echoes? I was thinking that maybe you could add some acoustic, laid back versions of Fates Warning songs as well, and it would be super interesting. Like, "A Pleasant Shade Of Gray pt. IX"… there are so many songs that could be interpreted in an acoustic environment. Would you consider something like that? Something more intimate?

We've actually talked about it. I just don't know if financially it would be possible. But it's something that Jim and I have discussed. We just don't know if it would really work. We are talking about doing some Fates shows at least this year, hopefully…

We are talking about doing some shows for the 40^th anniversary of Fates Warning. Not a full tour but some bigger shows, probably some very long shows

That was my next question…

Yeah, for the 40th anniversary! We're trying to get it together. Bobby's really, really busy. So, that would be key if we can get Bobby on. But we are talking about doing some shows, not a full tour but some bigger shows, probably some very long shows. Greece, of course, is included in that. So we'll see what happens...

Yeah, fingers crossed. Are you thinking - because of the 40th anniversary – of doing something special? Do you have any ideas or concepts in mind?

Not really, other than it would be a very long concert.

I’m OK with that…

Maybe two nights or something.. I don't know.

Wow! Two different sets in two shows here in Athens. That has to be documented, if it's gonna happen...

Yeah, it would be a lot of work, but we'll see… we'll talk about it.

Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but why not daydream a bit?

Yeah, yeah, same here. I would love to go back. It's been so long just to be able to play live again and see my friends. I think would be amazing to be back, of course.

We're very different than most other bands. We don't follow the norm

Now, this may not the case in Greece, but… there is a common belief among metal fans that Fates Warning have always been an underrated band. Many people believe so. Do you share this sentiment? After all these years, everything you've done and all the things that you've been through, do you share this thought and feeling?

I can see saying that and I appreciate it. I really do. I appreciate that they like us so much that they think other people should like us as much as they do. I personally know that we're very different than most other bands. We don't follow the norm. We do our own thing. So I think we're probably exactly where we're supposed to be. And I appreciate the fans that we have right now.

Yeah, it would be great to be bigger and maybe make more money, but you can't ask for a better fan base. The fact that we did put albums out and people would come and sing the new songs and want to hear the new songs as much as the old, you can't ask for more than that. You really can't. That's something special,

You have some bands that I forget their names… there's a couple of bands I read, they said they're not going to put out new music, but they'll tour. Because their fans don't care about the new music, all they want to hear the old stuff. That’s not the case with us. I think that's the best compliment you could ever have. Honestly, I think so. So, I think we're exactly where we're supposed to be.

Yeah. I meant it in a sense that, you know "They're so good. Why don't most people praise them?"...

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. That's great. It's, wonderful. It's like, you know, when you were a kid, you used to take your cassette tape around to people or your CD's and you were like "you have to check this band out" and they don't really feel the same way you do and you're kind of let down. I get it…

I've been there and done that with the cassette…

(laughs)

In fact, Fates Warning was part of that tape trading, in the mid-90s for me. Being not from Athens, but from a small town, getting "Parallels" on a cassette was one of these albums that looked like something like Holy Grail back then. And it didn't matter if it didn't sound that good…

(laughs)…

I would really like to do "A Pleasant Shade Of Gray" live. I love that album so much just for what it is

If they told you that you can pick one Fates Warning album for the 40th anniversary to play it live from start to finish, which one would you pick?

I don't know. We already did the "Parallels" one. I don't know... To be honest with you, I would really like to do "A Pleasant Shade Of Gray" live. I know we did that whole tour before. But, that was just so much fun. I love that album so much just for what it is. So there's an hour right. There is an entire one song about an hour or so. If we did one song and then did another album, I would like to do that. I think would be fun.

Yeah, I'd pick that too. It's almost it's almost 30 years since it came out. Time flies…

Yeah. "Open Book"... There you go... (laughs)

Metal Blade, they’re like family to us

So getting to the end, here’s another question I had for you. You tend to work simultaneously with two very big labels, like Inside Out and Metal Blade. You had your solo album on Inside Out last year, now you work with Metal Blade for this one. So how similar how different is it to work and collaborate with these two great labels. Even Fates Warning have moved from one to another, from time to time....

Yeah, that a weird time. Honestly, it was Jim’s idea to go to Inside Out. I can't exactly remember why, but it happened and it was great. Everyone at Inside Out and Century Media was great and the albums did well with them. We're very happy how well the albums did. I think once the contract was up, we ended up going back to Metal Blade just because we found out that Metal Blade wasn't exactly happy that we had left in the first place, since we had done everything on Metal Blade. Solo albums… everything's been on Metal Blade. They're like family to us. They always have been. I know everybody in the office I have for 30 years. They're friends of mine. I used to go to the office all the time, just to hang out. Slagel and I were great friends and we'd hang out all the time. So, yeah, that was just a weird time and with this album, we thought about putting it out ourselves and it just proved to be really difficult. Like, we don't really know how that works. So we said, we’ll just try and look for a label and see if they're interested. We didn't know if Metal Blade would really be that interested, because they're so extreme now. Man, they're so extreme. But, they were happy and they welcomed us with open arms. And so there we are…

That's good. So before we close, I'd like you to tell me the five albums that you’ve been listening to the most, no matter if they're new or old, it doesn't matter. So, the five albums that would be on your playlist.

I don't really have one. I mean, I don’t listen to music that much, man. I really don't. It's sad to say. The one thing I listen to mostly is probably Alice In Chains. Like "Dirt"… "Jar Of Flies" and "Dirt" are two of my favorite albums of all time...

I have million CDs and albums and I just never turn my speakers on. It's always "Alexa play Alice In Chains"

I love them…

I listen to that constantly… And it's funny that I have a great set of speakers. I have these Mirage Bipolar speakers that are just super expensive and amazing and they sound incredible and I have million CDs and albums and I just never turn them on. It's always "Alexa play Alice In Chains", you know… in that little shitty speaker ball.

Yeah, yeah…

It's pretty funny, but I actually miss sitting around listening to music. Maybe I will… this weekend… (laughs)

Yeah, why not? I’m also a huge Alice In Chains fan, much like Fates Warning, since my youth. You mentioned "Jar Of Flies" and it’s its 30 years anniversary this year, so if you had the chance to pick one song and do a vocal cover from it and give it your own twist, which one would you do?

Probably… I can never remember the name of it…

"No Excuses", "I Stay Away", "Nutshell", "Rotten Apple"…

What was the third one you said? The one where the he says "No place to call home"… [editor: Ray sings it]

"Nutshell"…

That's it. Now, that’s just beautiful! One of the most beautiful songs that I heard in my life… It's so sad. I could never do it as well as it is, obviously.

But there is an idea! If you do the acoustic tool with Jim, tell him to play "Nutshell"! I don’t know if you remember it, but they opened their unplugged with that tune…

Really?

And Layne was wearing his sunglasses and you thought he was gonna collapse as he was singing… but he nailed it.

Yeah, that performance, that MTV Unplugged, it's just magic, man. Amazing, absolutely amazing. I think it's one of the best unplugged actually.

Totally one of my favorite. So, that’s it. I hope this wasn’t one of the dull interviews.

Yeah. No, it was great! It was pleasure man. Pleasure talking to you. I'm gonna go have lunch now! (laughs)

I appreciate your time and thank you for all the music and the time you took for this interview and. Hope to see you in Greece with Fates or any of your other outlets.

Fingers crossed Chris! If we do, come say hi man.

Alright!

We'll have a… oh, don't tell me. What is it called.. the beer there... The one with the green can. What's it called?

Mythos?

Mythos yeah! Mythos! (laughs)

That will be on me!

Raki is my favorite there actually... I love it!

If you can handle it… I can't anymore…

Really? I love it!

I think at my age if a drink a bit too much of it, then I'm dead.

Yeah, I learned my lesson. I drank like half a bottle one time when I was there. It wasn't a good day the next day anyway… (laughs)