Devin Townsend: "There's no question that the idiots rule"

There’s not a lot of artists like Devin Townsend. In fact, there’s no one like Devin. Not even close. Throughout his incredibly creative career so far, we know well about his talents and his unique (or not) personality, and with each new work that he creates he just establishes himself more among the greatest. As he does again.

His brand new album "PowerNerd", may seem a bit more straightforward than the more proggy/complex/over-over the top albums we’ve used to expect from him, but in reality it is quite deeper, both musically and lyrically. As most of his albums, it is a reflection of the things he had to deal with while composing the songs, and as he admits it wasn’t an easy period.

But, instead of staying in the dark, he managed to challenge himself by changing some rules and parameters and mainly by deciding to turn grief and depression into empowerment and optimism. Always in his own, unique way…

How did he manage to do it? Well, there’s no one better to tell you about it, rather than the man himself, the incredible Mr. Devin Townsend. In the interview that follows you won’t only get a lot of interesting information about his new album, but you’ll witness why he is so exceptional in so many levels, beyond just music.

Hello, hello!

Hello, hello!

How are you doing, Mr. Devin?

How I'm good. How about yourself?

I'm good as well. How are things in Canada at this time of year?

It is OK. It is 10:00 AM on a Friday, it's about 72 degrees. So in theory it's perfect… (laughs)

OK. Let’s hope it rolls out as a perfect day for you. As good as it gets…

As do I! My hopes are not high for perfect days in general, but I'll accept that and hope that it happens.

Yeah, sometimes an unexpected perfect day is more than welcome. And enjoy your coffee. I'm sure you love your coffee…

Thank you!

The older I get, the more I appreciate, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to make music

I've had three already, and it's 8:00 PM here, so I'm not going to have another one...

This is my third, so we're on the same team.

Well, I really don't know what to congratulate you about first… For your new album? For your overall music offerings, especially the last few years? Man… I mean, wow!

(laughs) I'm happy to do what I do. I have to say the older I get, the more I appreciate, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to make music. It's a great job.

But you do it rather exceptionally, allow me to say…

Thanks man! (laughs)

So apart from congratulate you, I feel the need to express my gratitude and thank you for the empowerment you offer through your music. Because, especially the last few years have been rough for mankind in many ways and albums like "Empath", "Lightwork" and now "PowerNerd" offer something precious for the listener. At least that's what I earn from them.

Thank you!

Music for me is a byproduct of the madness of life

There is a compassion, maybe a glimmer of hope, and a way to make it through the madness. So has this become something like a mission for you to offer through your mic?

No, no! I don't believe in my work being attached to a mission. If it was a mission, I would have to understand it more than I do… (laughs)

Music for me is a byproduct of the madness of life and it was always a place that I could put my emotions. And over the past few years, I recognize how much power music has in general. And how much control people who write music and record music have and what the effect of their music can be for people.

For example, when I was working on "PowerNerd" there was a certain point where the record was just so… not depressing but… because of the state of my life and everything that I was feeling, the record ended up feeling depressed. Like really depressed. So, I recognize that I have a choice to guide that a little bit. And opposed to having a mission with the music, I just want to make sure that it's healthy for me and accurate for me. And then my fingers are crossed that it can help other people, as a result of that.

Alright, understood! Now going to the music, before we go to "PowerNerd" itself, let's start with the fact that you've made three albums and "PowerNerd" is just the first, as "The Moth" and "Axolotl" will follow, if I get it right…

(laughs) Yeah!

And they're quite different from each other. So, please try to explain me how you managed to make three albums simultaneously.

Well, I sheepishly, I admit that there's four albums….

(many laughs)

I guess the best way for me to describe the process of that is to go back to the last time I made four albums, which was Devin Townsend Project in about 2008. During that time I had gone through a really big life change. We had children, you know? It was a big life change. I had quit Strapping Young Lad and had kids and it was a big life change.

And what tends to happen when I write is I don't write with an agenda, I don't write thinking "OK, I'm working on this record. Now I'm working on this record". I just write whatever I feel like writing, and then I'll have fragments of ideas. Like, maybe you'll have a chorus, maybe you'll have an intro, maybe you'll have a riff… And then I put it into piles on my hard drive. And for example, if I write something heavy, it goes on the heavy pile. If I write something orchestral, it goes on the orchestral pile. And then after a while, those piles start to grow. And in my case, I look at them and I think "oh, OK, so this particular period of my life seems to have 4 components". It seems to have a complicated, chaotic component. It has a straightforward rocking component, it has a meditational component, and typically it has like a wild card. So, with Devin Townsend Project back in 2008, the straightforward one was "Addicted!", the complicated one was "Deconstruction", the wild card was "Ki", and the meditational one was "Ghost".

Now I'm in the midst of another big life change. My kids have moved out and my family went through a lot of grief over the past few months. So, it seems again that that experience has manifested as four different things. So, the chaotic and complicated one is "The Moth. The straightforward one is the "PowerNerd". The meditational one is the 4th record that is gonna be "Ruby Quaker"or "Dream Piece", I haven't decided what the name is yet. And then the wild card is "Axolotl".

I know it's a long description, but it's 10 in the morning… (laughs)

And it makes perfect sense to me for some reason.

OK. Thank you.

Really, is there a timeline for them to be released? Because I was thinking that these are some albums in the pipeline, and me as a listener, sometimes I get frustrated that it's going to come out in two years from now. So, how is it for a musician that has already written the music and is just waiting for so long for it to be released?

Well, the only thing is I start writing more, so by the time the records come out, they're so far in the past that I have to remember… (laughs)

I think the timeline for the four records it'll all be within two years. So "PowerNerd" comes out in October, but "The Moth" is about 75% finished. I mean writing wise not the recording. Writing wise about 75% finished. "Axolotl"’s maybe about 50% finished and "Ruby Quaker"/"Dream Piece", that album is evolving as we go. I keep writing… Like I wrote another piece for it last night.

So I think that the thing that would define when the releases comes out is often more of an industry thing than it is a personal thing. Like, the label they're like, they don't want to release all four at once. They want to release one and work on it, and then one and work on it and so forth… My role in that is just to provide the content and then follow what they think in terms of promotion and interviews and things…

Yeah, I guess you can trust Thomas and the other guys in InsideOut after so many years. They know what they're doing…

Oh yeah! Yeah, I can! And, you know, Thomas is a friend, so that that helps.

Yeah, I guess. So now let's focus a bit on "PowerNerd" that's coming out next month and we already know how great it is. The others will be as well, but that we’ll find out in time…

(laughs) Thank you.

After so many records, it's easy to fall into patterns. I feel that if I can challenge myself with some new obstacles, sometimes it can yield new results

Then again, it's also kind of an experiment of its own as you decided to write all the music in 11 days and you tried not to overthink about anything. And it seems you achieved something great, so effortlessly… So what's next? Maybe write an album in one day?

(laughs) Well, I'll say a couple things…

First, it was 11 days that I used to compile the record, but I had a pile of riffs, right? Like I had said before. So it wasn't from scratch in 11 days. I mean, three of the songs were! But that 11 days… I made it short like you suggested, so that I could have parameters on the writing to see what would happen. And the reason why I tend to put parameters or different experiences into each record, like maybe it's a choir, maybe it's an orchestra, maybe it's a certain drummer, maybe it's parameters in terms of time… whatever it is… I do that to keep myself inspired. After so many records, it's easy to fall into patterns and so I feel that if I can challenge myself with some new obstacles, sometimes it can yield new results and that's what happened. Just by putting those parameters, I wrote differently than I had in the past. And the idea was for it to be a more simple record. And is it? Hmm, maybe a little… but it could have been simpler, I imagine….

Yeah, I was gonna question about that because the album to me is a nice mystery in a way. Because you'd think as you listen to it, that it's a straightforward album, both musically and lyrically, and then you realize that there is detail and depth in it. There are big riffs and catchy melodies, but there it's also well produced and there are some impressive technical stuff, without taking the focus from the composition itself.

Thank you!

if I did things on purpose, then I could claim it as being clever

Also, there is comedy and fun on the surface but really important issues and messages on the inside. So was that kind of controversy done on purpose or it just came out this way?

I wish I did things on purpose, brother… (laughs) And if I did things on purpose, then I could claim it as being clever.

But I don't think about it. I think the best way for me to describe the process is… rather than thinking I hear it entirely in my head and I won't compromise until it sounds exactly like I know it's supposed to sound. That's not how I work. How I work is I know how it should feel.

How it sounds, what the riffs are, what the words are, what the chorus sounds like, what the instrumentation is, I don't know at all… but I do know that in the beginning of a record, like in those 11 days, I was like "it's something that's about the rain", "it's something about mountains", "it's something about tenacity and getting through difficult periods". And I know that by the time this record is over, I want to feel empowered by it. My process of making that happen is following that feeling. So I might record something and then I listen back, it doesn't make me feel that way and so I think, "OK, that's not right. So what's wrong about it?". And most of the time I don't know, so I have to just experiment, so I'll try changing things or I'll try different sounds or I'll change the chorus or change the mid-section, or add a solo or take a solo away or whatever.

But it's very much like you're in a dark room, there's no lights and you're just looking for the light switch on the wall… (laughs) So, the process of trying to get the music right is like looking for a light switch in a dark room. Like "maybe it's here. Maybe it's here. Maybe it's here". And then when you do turn it, when you do find it, you do turn on the light. Then you're like, "oh, right. OK, so that's how it's supposed to feel I can move on. And I think that's how I do it. I don't think about it. I don't plan it. I think that's how I do it.

I'm always fairly confused... So as opposed to pretending that I'm not, I just try to use the music as a way for me to be honest about how I feel. And explore how I feel through the music

Maybe that's why it turns out great, because if it was on purpose it could have been, you know, pre-styled. I don't know how to say that in a right way…

…I understand. Like, yeah, premeditated, right?

I think that the music for me serves a very practical purpose in that as a human being, I'm always fairly confused… (laughs)… like most of us. I don't know many people that aren't confused, really. So as opposed to pretending that I'm not, I just try to use the music as a way for me to be honest about how I feel. And explore how I feel through the music. And if I do it correctly, then every record that comes out is like a short story about a certain part of my life.

Like what happened with when I did "The Puzzle", for example, it was a story about lockdown. When I did any of them… When I did "Infinity", it was a story about psychedelic experience. When I did "Alien", it was a story about paranoia. All these things reveal themselves during the process.

And so I always feel like… not dragged with it, because that sounds more dramatic… but I'm just sort of following the creative impulse and I don't know where it's going to lead. And at the end, I'm like "oh, I'm sad" or whatever… (laughs)

A big part of moving forward as an artist and as a person is accepting your nature

All right! Now the word itself, the title of the album "PowerNerd" is powerful itself. You also gave a very, very nice definition on the press release, about what is a "PowerNerd". So I'd like to know when and how this word strike you, because I always thought nerds are often misunderstood. They’re the ones that become actually good at what they're doing, because they have this nerdiness, they want to know and own the things they do. So yeah, "PowerNerd" is great.

Thank you! I also feel that a big part of moving forward as an artist and as a person is accepting your nature. You know, I think that a real sign of strength is knowing that your personality may be maybe nerdy to somebody else, maybe cringy to somebody else. Whatever it is. But if you choose to be yourself nonetheless, that's the type of strength that is very powerful. If you see that your true nature is something that doesn't fit into society, and then your reaction to that is to change it, like to change who you are, so you can fit in, I don't think that yields much on an artistic level. But if you can understand, it's like "yeah, listen, this is what I am, I'm hypersensitive cat. I'm intelligent in certain ways and nerdy in certain ways"… you know, whatever it is, whatever your deal is… if you are able to say "That doesn't hurt people, and it's who I am. Therefore, I choose to surrender to that and be that"… I think that's the type of power that is very nice.

There's no question that the idiots rule

I agree with that. Now I wanna tell you my favorite lyric of the album so far, which is "give me another beer, man. I want another dream. I don't want to think about nothing. I want infinite ways to get off myself"… I completely relate to that and I don't know why. So maybe you could explain it to me...

Sometimes over the past few years, you turn on the news, you hear a politician… you see the shit going on with war and it seems so unbelievably stupid...

It does…

So fucking stupid! And so what I was trying to get across with "Knuckledragger" is using the example of beer... It doesn't matter, it could be anything, right? It could be dope, it could be whatever you use to release… you know it could be exercise, whatever. Right? But I think that the sentiment in that song is just more like it's so fucking stupid. It's so frustrating. And so give me another beer is not coming from the point of being an alcoholic, but more just like it's frustrating. And so even in the pre chorus it's like "but we'll stand up and we'll stand tall"… because there's no question that the idiots rule…. I think this is something that many of us can relate to right now.

The chaos of it all, with artificial intelligence and social media and the stupidity of humans in general is so much more in the red now

Yeah, totally…

You know, because it seems like, as opposed to even a decade ago, the chaos of it all, with artificial intelligence and social media and the stupidity of humans in general is so much more in the red now. It's like the needle’s in the red. And so because there's nothing you can really do about it, because it's like the path has been set by humanity in so many ways, it's the frustration that I felt that is what that song is based on.

Music wise, there's also some nice percussion and drumming on this song which makes me want to ask which musicians were involved. There's nothing on the press release…

Yeah, the musicians... The drummer for this record is Darby Todd. So he's the same drummer I used for "Lightwork" and for the live shows. But really "PowerNerd" was an exceptionally difficult record for me to make for a number of reasons. And one of the many reasons that it was difficult is that in the beginning I had hired certain musicians, a mixing engineer… like I had this whole plan for it that was going to make the process something that I didn't have to be so intimately involved with. I could let somebody else mix it. Get these bass player and drummer and track it live kind of thing…

But all those things fell through like every one of those scenarios fell through. So I had to play the instruments myself, all other than drums, I had to mix it, I had to do all these things myself unexpectedly.

To answer your question other than Darby and Diego [editor: Diego Tejeida – Temic, ex-Haken) playing keyboards, I did everything except for those two things. And vocally we had Jamie Jasta on one track and then a musician named Aman Khosla doing other vocals. But other than that, I did the rest of it…

All right, understood. Then I have to say that I really enjoy "Ruby Quaker" SO MUCH. You know, initially you think it's a tongue in cheek song, but it's not. Especially, the technical, musical stuff that occurs at some point, it's fantastic.

Thank you!

The record is about losing people. It's about death. It's about change. I didn't expect it to be about that, but it is...

So why did you want to end the album like with a tribute to your beloved coffee? Or maybe is this Ziltoid speaking through you?

(many laughs) Maybe. Maybe that's it! Yeah!

Well, if it isn't Ziltoid… let's say it's not Ziltoid for a minute because it could be…

So, the record is about losing people. It's about death. It's about change. I didn't expect it to be about that, but it is. During the writing and recording of this, my family went through a lot of grief. And so the songs ended up being about losing loved ones.

The song that is most emotionally heavy for me is the song "Goodbye". Originally, I was going to end the record with "Goodbye", but by the time it gets that song - for me - I found the emotions to be very, very difficult. I found that it was very overwhelming, that song. So I started thinking about how I want to leave the audience feeling, and I thought that when the record ends, that's how you want them to feel.

And I decided "no, that's not how I want people to feel", because the process of grief, the process of losing people in our lives, there's a certain amount of acceptance that needs to happen, and then after that acceptance, you know… through the anger, through the grief, through the sadness, through the resistance and then through the acceptance there's a new day that happens.

And I remember during the recording of this, when things were really, really depressing, I had a friend come over one day because he knew that I was dealing with depression. And he came over and he was like, "do you want to go for a coffee?". And my first reaction was like, "yeah"... (laughs) So it was less about the coffee and more about the new day. And so "Ruby Quaker" is meant to represent after you've accepted the loss, after you've been through it… life goes on. And so "Ruby Quaker" is meant to represent that more so than just being a comedy song. It's more about the next day, right?

What a musician! Holy cow! His voice! He's just so talented! It's crazy!

Yeah, I thought so. I didn't know the exact meaning, but as I told you, it seemed in the first place that it's like comedy, but then… no it's not. And to link it with my next question, I was thinking that would it would be a really nice track to play acoustically. And then I remember reading the news that you play some acoustic solo dates with my maybe my favorite singer in the last 20 years, Myles Kennedy, in the UK. And I was like: What is this? A crossover episode? You know this these are two different worlds that I love, so how they’ve come together? How did this happen?

(laughs) I met Myles on the last tour that we did. He asked to meet up, because he really liked the "Lightwork" album. And then I met him and his partner backstage. And you know, you can't really tell about people in a quick meeting. I mean, you can tell whether or not they're people that you want to see again, but you don't know much about them. But he seemed very genuine and very kind. And what a musician! Holy cow! His voice! He's just so talented! It's crazy!

So, when the opportunity came up, he and his team offered me the entire tour, like all of Europe. But, I've got so many responsibilities at home right now, like I've got dogs and aging parents and kids and everything is just so crazy here, that I can only do a shorter tour. So they decided that the UK run would be the best one.

But I would have loved to have gotten to Greece again. We've only played there once…

Myles has never come here, if it makes you feel better…

(laughs)

And, of course, that was my last question about Greece. Cause it’s really a shame that you haven't come here again. You're so beloved here. And there's something that has to be done to bring you here again…

First of all, thank you! But, I think the biggest thing is that post-pandemic it's just been so crazy trying to get everything on track again. It's slowly getting back on track and I can't wait to be in Greece again. I really enjoyed it. And I really like that whole area as well… that whole area of the world. I went and spent two weeks on Cyprus, which I guess is close to Greece, right?

Well, Cyprus is Greek practically…

It is?

I really like the philosophical and intellectual conversations that I've had with friends of mine from Greece. I find that it's a very thoughtful part of the world, and I appreciate it very much

It used to be until 50 years ago, when there was an invasion and like half the island is Greek and there is a part of it that belongs to Turkey. And so they're an autonomous country in a way...

Oh, that's right! That's right, because when I was there, I went across the border. Yes, that's right. So it's half Turkish, half Greek, yeah!

I really like that part of the world. And we played in Athens, and I had the experience in Athens and I loved it. And I really like the philosophical and intellectual conversations that I've had with friends of mine from Greece. I find that it's a very thoughtful part of the world, and I appreciate it very much. And the food's fucking wonderful!

We also have good coffee here... (laughs)

Yeah. You do, man! However, I'm not a connoisseur at this point. I'm just interested in the caffeine for the most part, right? (laughs)

So, Devin… I just want to thank you for the music and express my gratitude once again. And I hope we’ll have the chance to see you in person when come here to Greece. And thank you for you time.

You're so welcome my friend! And thank you for the interview, and I hope to meet you again.