Crown Lands: "Our music is rooted in past feelings, but our mindset is rooted in the present"

During the last few years, the duo of Cody Bowles and Kevin Comeau shifted its musical direction and set sail to be the new heroes of progressive rock music. With their amazing new album "Apocalypse" being released, we had a lot to discuss with Cody for quite a few topics, including their move to Inside Out Music, their participation in the Cruise To The Edge, the comparisons to Rush, world music, how practice makes perfect, the differences between "Apocalypse" and " Fearless", the need to have both Nick Raskulinecz and Dave Botrill on board, how the concept of the new album is relevant to everything that’s going on in the world right now and how they feel being already a respected part of the prog community. And much more…

… But, I can tell you that. It was Cody’s smile during the whole conversation, his excitement and his kind spirit that said more than words.

So, ladies and gents fasten your seatbelts and lose yourself to the epic, sci-fi, progressive rock adventurous world of Crown Lands, a band "much rooted in past feelings, but with its mindset very much rooted in the present" to quote Cody.

Hello, Cody!

How are you doing, Chris?

I'm doing fine. It's a pleasure and a privilege to have a chance to talk with you. How are you doing?

Pleasure's all mine. I'm doing good, man. Doing great.

Is this the first time you speak with someone from Greece?

I think so. That's awesome!

Yeah, isn't it? I figured out so. And we have a quest to spread the word as much as possible, so as to see you playing live here in your prime, while you make great music. We'll be very happy to have you here playing music for us.

Man, I would love to. I would absolutely love to.

Yeah. I think you're on a trajectory that your fame is rising right now in the prog world and in the rock world in general. And hopefully, it’s gonna happen sooner than later.

Well, I certainly hope you're right, my friend.

Other than Neil Peart, Bill Bruford is the guy

I hope I'm right too. So how are things going these days? I guess you're pretty busy with doing interviews and stuff regarding the new album, right?

Yeah, but it's exciting, you know? It's such a privilege to be able to talk to people about a piece of art you're about to put out. It’s such a rare feeling and such a great privilege to have the pleasure of being able to explain and talk about the stuff that went into it. Because when you make a record, you put your soul into it.

But, things have been good. We've been busy. We've been just got off of a cruise. We played this Prog cruise called Cruise to the Edge, which was awesome. I got to meet like some of my heroes, like Steve Hackett, Eddie Jobson, Simon Phillips… Bill Bruford of course! How could I how could I stutter on Bill? He's like my legend… Other than Neil, he's like the guy…

It feels like we're finally with a family or a team of people who understand what we want to do and understand who we are as people and musicians

That was exactly my next question, regarding the Cruise To Edge experience. Because, you’re like just entering this Prog community. And I think it has a lot to do with you signing with Inside Out and being a part of all of that. So how does it feel so far?

It feels like we're home. It feels like we're finally with a family or a team of people who understand what we want to do and understand who we are as people and musicians. It's like fellow kindred spirits, you know?

In order to be successful you have to be on the radio. In order to be on the radio, you have to play accessible songs… You know what? Screw it. We're prog nerds

And you chose to be in that world! Because, with the reputation that you have and the success that you have in your first releases, you could have easily gone towards a more mainstream, let's say, direction. But it seems that your heart led you to this more adventurous road.

Yeah, we couldn't help it. You know, we started out as like a bluesy kind of rock duo. And it was cool and we love that stuff. However, we always were big fans of prog. I had played prog in a previous band before Crown Lands. And we were always kind of hiding it. We're like "Okay, in order to be successful in Canada, you have to be on the radio. In order to be on the radio, you have to play accessible songs". And then at a certain point, we're like "You know what? Screw it. We're prog nerds and we're going to write prog now". So this is who we are.

This is the kind of stories that I personally love. And I think most people feel inspired to see artists that somehow manage to follow their dreams and their motivation and what keeps their flame alive creatively. Because that's not the case usually. The music industry is tough. I guess you know that better than me.

Oh yeah, it's tough! Very tough!

When we put out our 20minute single with Universal, they were very concerned

So if you’re gonna win this game, you’d better win it by your own rules! When Inside Out approached you to sign with them, did you see the roster and thought "Oh, there are some cool bands there that we could be on the same roster?". Which ones did stood out for you?

Yeah! Dude, I mean… King Crimson, Dream Theater! We were like "What?". Kansas? I was like "Dude, this is so freaking cool!". It blew my mind. So seeing that, I was like "Okay, they're going to understand!". Because when we put out our 20minute single with Universal, they were very concerned. But then when we were planning to do the same with "Apocalypse" with Inside Out, they knew everything. They were like "Yeah, we get it. We understand it. We back it. Here's the plan. Here you go!".

That's great. So if they told you pick a pick an artist from a roster to tour with in Europe, which is the first one you would choose right now?

That's a good question! Honestly, I would love to tour with Dream Theater. Mike Portnoy has been such a great supporter of the band. Thankfully, he's just such an awesome guy. Like when we put out "Fearless", he loved it so much. He gave us his address and he was like "Please send me like vinyl. It's my address. I love you guys!". This is awesome. And then when we put out "Apocalypse", he was digging it as well. So I would love to tour with those guys and geek out about time signatures with him on the drums.

They happen to be my favorite band of the last 30 years or something…

Nice.

I think if Mikes reads this interview, he'll be really glad. But, you started this collaboration with your new label by releasing 2 EPs with ambient music, "Ritual I" and "Ritual II". And to quote your own words as I've read them on the internet, they're "a product of yoga, meditation, and mushrooms". So, is that correct?

It is correct! (laughs)

Anything we do together with Kevin is Crown Lands, whether it's this genre or that genre

Cool!

But, also, I have a base in Afro-Cuban drumming and West African drumming, hand drumming, and singing and dancing. I studied that in university and I always wanted to do something with that. Definitely, when you boil that it down, it’s yoga, meditation, and mushrooms, for sure. But it's also a love for world music. I listen to primarily world music outside of prog rock, and I love it. I love all the different sounds and textures that other world instruments bring. I play a plethora of world instruments, like the oud, the santur, and the fife flute. I just love all sorts of sounds. So, when we had the opportunity to make a record that centered around world music instruments, I was like "Hell yeah!".

And something that Kevin and I said early on was that anything we do together is Crown Lands, whether it's this genre or that genre… Whatever we want to do, we have become a band where we're like "Okay, we're not going to chase radio. We're not going to chase this or that. We're just going to make music that we want to make. And if it gels with people, that's amazing". But we really wanted to express that side of ourselves at least a little bit and dip our toes into this sonic exploration.

The mushrooms came later... (laughs)

On the upcoming record we’ll be diving more into like electronic, but it's still going to be progressive rock for sure

Now, would you consider mixing the two worlds at some point, the ambient and the world music with prog and make some kind of epic that goes from one another or something like that?

I mean, that would be really cool. We did initially tease it when we did "Starlifter". We have that little flute section for like a couple measures right before it goes into a heavier section. And then even in "Apocalypse", it's actually the first time I play the nay flute in Crown Lands. But it's just for a little moment...

But, it would be really cool to explore that even further. I think on the upcoming record, we’ll be diving more into like electronic, like electronic drums, like sampling a world percussion, which is super cool. So the next record is definitely going to have more of an interesting direction in that kind of sphere, but it's still going to be progressive rock for sure.

It’s really hard for me to be impressed by my own music. I'm a bit of a perfectionist…

It’s obvious that progressive rock is your territory, if someone listens to "Apocalypse", which is another fantastic album after "Fearless". So first of all, congrats for it! How do you feel about it now that it's going to be released and what did you try to keep and what did you try to change in comparison to "Fearless"?

That's a great question. Well, I feel really excited, because it's really hard for me to be impressed by my own music. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and I'm oftentimes not satisfied with the music as it's coming out. But I say for the first time in a while, I'm very proud and very excited on this body of work that we're about to release. I stand behind it 100%. It's some of the best stuff we've ever come up with. I'm even excited for some of the other tracks that didn't make it on the record that will be coming out after, which is very exciting. It's always like it's like your baby, you know? The world is going to be able to see what you've been putting your heart and soul into. And it's something that fills me with joy and excitement.

I got really into Dio when we were making this record

And in regards to what you tried to keep the same or change in comparison to "Fearless"?

The things that we changed in comparison to "Fearless"… "Starlifter" was structured in such a way where we wanted it to have a certain structure, where we changed the way we worked with "Apocalypse". We looked toward songs like "Relayer" by Yes. And we wanted it to have more of a structure that's in movements. So each movement of the song has like a beginning, middle and a definite end. And it kind of closes out those chapters. But they have those hooks that are self-contained and then an overarching theme. So we changed the way we worked on that one.

Vocally, I'm reaching into some wild territory. I've developed my vocals quite a bit, which I'm very proud of. And I'm reaching into even some sort of metal belting in this record, which is really cool. I got really into Dio when we were making this record. And that inspiration, that darker grit in my voice, especially in the beginning of "Apocalypse", or like "Foot Soldiers of the Syndicate", I’m going to some places that I've never gone before, which is super cool, but still being able to maintain a balance.

Something that we kept the same is our love for dynamic, like in "Through the Looking Glass" we go from very soft, ethereal, atmospheric stuff, and then in the chorus it gets big and loud and bombastic. But we just always experiment with texture and we know what we love. So we do more of what we love and also changing things up, so to speak.

You worked in your own studio, if I'm not mistaken. And you had Nick Raskulinecz and Dave Bottrill, both of them being legendary producers, helping you. So what was their contribution to the final outcome and why were they both needed in this record?

Yeah, good question. Well, when we first started the conception of the "Apocalypse" album we wanted to work with Nick on it. We talked to him and we were so excited and we had everything put in place, just like little demos and the demo for "Apocalypse". And he listened to it and he's like "Man, this is the best thing you've ever done". And we're like "Oh my God, this is awesome. Thank you, dude! We would love to record this with you!". And so we worked it out in such a way where we would fly down to Nashville to his studio and we would stay there and we would work on it. And it was awesome. Like he helped us with the drums, recording the drums for "Apocalypse" and making "Through the Looking Glass". We just made that there, which was amazing. So he helped produce that. "The Revenants", he helped make that as well, which is super cool.

And then by that time, he just became too busy with other awesome bands, which is like "Can't argue that the guy's a busy guy and he's working with some amazing heavy hitting bands". So, he entrusted us to finish the rest of the job ourselves. And we worked with David Bottrill on "Blackstar", on "Foot Soldiers of the Syndicate" and stuff like that. He helped us add some of the top line stuff to bring it to a certain degree of of completeness and professionalism that we trust him so much. And he just lives near us. So having him over to our studio was really not an issue. So, we'd go into the room and he'd help us tweak things here and there. And honestly, it was such a privilege. We have two legends helping us create this amazing album. So both, I think, were necessary in this process. And then the rest, Kevin recorded and we just did ourselves in our own little room. Like all the vocals for "Apocalypse" was just done in our little studio. Super cool.

And the result is super good, because sonically the album has all the dynamics that good prog albums need to have, you know. It’s not compressed, like many current albums are made during the production.

Totally. That's obviously all due to David Bottrill. He's a legend, you know. He mixed the whole record. So, he definitely helped bring it to that next level.

Υou mentioned before that when you told Inside Out that you're going to have a 20 minute long song as the first single, they said "Cool, that's okay". But at the same time, it’s still a risky move. And I'm saying that because there are songs that could be the first singles easily, cause they’re catchy. But you chose this track. Was it kind of a statement from your side?

Yeah! We haven't put out music in a while and we wanted to make a real statement. Most of all, we wanted people to listen to the song because we thought if we put out something else out and we don't put this out as a single and it just releases with the record, people won't get through all 19 minutes. People will get maybe 1/4 of the way through, because it's at the end of the record. So people might at that time skip it or not really listen to it. And we really wanted to shine a light on it, because the story is so central to the album's theme and everything. So we really wanted people to digest that first and foremost. And it's like cementing us on a Prog label. This is our first big Prog release on this label and we wanted to really be like "Hey guys, we didn't lose ourselves completely in the mushrooms with "Ritual". We're back!".

I'm someone who enjoys the extended version of Lord of the Rings. I can sit down for four hours and digest it all

Yeah, I get it. And now you mentioned that, here's a difference between the last two albums. And on "Fearles" the epic track was at the beginning of the record. Now, the epic track is the closing song of the record. So what do you prefer, both as a musician and as a listener of prog records? Do you want the big epic to be at the beginning or at the end of a record?

I think it depends on the story, but if you were to ask me on any given day, I would say at the end, because I'm very much an album listener. And if the story of the album is like all the way through, then I'll listen to the whole thing. And then if the end is like a big climactic event, then I'm here for it. But I'm also someone who enjoys the extended version of Lord of the Rings. I can sit down for three and a half hours, four hours and digest it all.

If something is good, why not last longer?

Yeah, exactly.

Being a prog fan, usually means more is more… (laughs)

Yes, exactly.

Now let's go a little bit to the storyline, to the concept of the album. Because it goes to the beginning of the whole story of this universe that you've made, when the syndicate takes over other planets for its own need. The first thing that I was thinking, taking into consideration the state of the world right now, is that so many parallels can be drawn so easily, which is kind of sad, isn't it?

It is very sad, but it is also very intentional why we did it like that, right? We wanted to use this story, this sci-fi fantasy storyline with these fictional entities to really be the vehicle of a message of like "Hey, this is happening in the world and it's messed up". So, we use that as a way to say "Hey, this is this is existing", but also to tell a story that we really want to tell. And that's like the age-old classic space opera story of good versus evil, the hope versus hopelessness, whole thing like that.

It was really fun to flesh it out, because we had never really explored the Syndicate. We knew they were bad, but we didn't know how. And so when we were conceptualizing the record, I told Kevin "Hey, we actually need to have some sort of beginning and to flesh out the Syndicate and maybe make someone that opposes Fearless". Because as it stood, when we finished "Starlifter", Fearless didn't really have any specific person to oppose, just this faceless entity, which in and of itself could work. However, I felt it would be more poignant to make the sequel battle between these two forces more memorable if we had a face and a name. And so we created Blackstar and we created the Syndicate and so on and so forth.

Prog is like a puzzle. I have to make all these random melodies and weird time signatures make sense and sound good and then make lyrics on top of that go with them

How difficult was it to approach the story from the perspective of the bad guys? Because, most songs are from the perspective of Blackstar and the syndicate and how they see things. Was it difficult for you to put it into words and put out the message that you want, right?

Well, we really dug into it. I really dug into it in "Apocalypse" when we made it, we had like the story blocks and we knew where it had to start and where it had to end. And then I took it into the apartment where I'm at right now. And I just worked on the lyrics and the melodies painstakingly, because it's Prog, so it's like a puzzle. I have to make all these random melodies and weird time signatures make sense and sound good and then make lyrics on top of that go with them.

It was really fun, actually, to get into the headspace of like "Okay, I'm an evil intergalactic warlord, a part of this crazy conglomerate empire that's bloodthirsty. What would that feel like? What would that sound like?". Well, it would be gritty, it would be dark, which is why the whole album has a darker tone. And it would be kind of oppressive. And I have these moments when I was making the melodies for "Apocalypse", I really like voice acting and stuff like that. So, I started doing like this deep, dark voice because I can get my voice quite low. And I was doing Blackstar imagining what he would sound like. He's this evil, deep kind of monstrous voice. And we layer that underneath in the battle sections in "Apocalypse". If you listen close you can actually hear it and I put it all alongside it as like an artistic representation of how evil he is. My singing voice is here but he's this dark presence. But, it was fun to get into character so to speak on that, because it's really like acting this piece and I really wanted to feel it.

I really liked is that the ultimate meaning that stays with the listener in the end. You know, that it's like a reverse Beatle meanings… You know, Beatles say that "the love you make is equal to the love you take", while here it is, "the evil that you make is equal to the evil that you take"…

Yes. It's true because the core message is hate begets hate, violence begets violence. And it's only a matter of time if you sow violence, then violence will come back to you. And it's like, is that a world where we want to live in or do we want to change? Do we want to be fearless and take a step toward a greater future that has maybe less violence and less hate and more acceptance?

Our music is very much rooted in past feelings and stuff, but our lyrics and our mindset is very much rooted in the present

And how relevant it is to the world that we live today, with all that’s going on and politicians playing in a chess pool, and waiting to see if it’s going to backfire…

What's going to happen next, right? Yeah, it's true. Every day is a new atrocity. Our music is very much rooted in past feelings and stuff, but our lyrics and our mindset is very much rooted in the present. We talk about all this stuff around us.

Yeah, sci-fi has always been a great way sometimes to foresee future, but most of the times telling it in a way that people will get it without feeling that someone is trying to brainwash them or tell them what to do.

Yeah, exactly. And I've always loved sci-fi for that. Like Dune, for example. It's the perfect example of a horrible thing, like what the dangers of religion can be in extremism. That's what Dune's always been about. And it's like a cautionary tale, which is so cool. I really love Frank Herbert for that.

So I have to ask a couple of questions that I'm sure no one has asked you about ever… I'm kidding, of course…

Yeah.

To be compared to them in any way, shape or form is something that I wear as a badge of honor

The first one is… how do you feel right now after some time that people still, compare you to Rush. Okay, there are parallels, like your voice, like the sci-fi and the epics and the prog approach. But come on… this is only the surface. Do you want to scratch a little bit?

Yeah! I feel comfortable in myself knowing that we're original enough to stand apart from it. But I know that those guys are the best of the best, not only in music, in musicianship, but as people they're always examples that we've always looked up to. So, to be compared to them in any way, shape or form is something that I wear as a badge of honor. Like, I can't be mad at that. I could never be taken as an insult, because they're so freaking good to me.

How would you feel if they invited you to play drums with them?

I would have cried, my friend. I would have cried with tears of joy.

Yeah, you're from Canada. I think you'd be a really nice fit there. I'd love it to see it happening, it could be like passing the torch in a way. I haven't thought that before...

Yeah, that would be insane. We'll see. Who knows?

We didn't start that good. So, it's something that's earned. We learned it the hard way

And the second question, which I'm pretty sure no one has ever asked you, is how do two people make this music sound live so good? You're only two persons, and you sound like seven persons.

It's a lot of careful planning, a lot of practice, because both of us are multitasking a lot, right? Practice makes permanence, practice doesn't necessarily make perfect, but repetition and good technique, good posture. In my case, when I have to play drums and sing, I always have to be sitting up so straight and just practicing that every day when we're playing together, rehearsing. Putting the time in is really what allows us, what affords us the ability to do what we do. Because Kev's got like a foot keyboard he's playing. He's playing two things all the time. He's splitting his brain quite a bit, but that's all just repetition. He didn't start that good at that. We didn't start that good. I started singing and drumming for Crown Lands. I started singing while drumming. I never sang before this band. So, it's something that's earned. We learned it the hard way.

Yeah, but it's still very impressive! Because the first time that you listen to the music, you say "No, it cannot be played by two persons". And then some, I've only seen videos on YouTube, which is not the best case, and yet you deliver!" And I’m like "Oh man, what kind of multitasking is that? I'm tired watching them doing all this stuff together!".

It's tiring, man. I finish a show and it feels like I had a shower.

Yeah, I can imagine! Have you ever considered playing some special events in the future with more musicians along with you on stage to help you perform better your staff?

Yes, sir. Actually, we're doing that. Our tour across Ontario starts this Friday, and we're actually bringing our buddies who appeared in the Apocalypse Live video. So we're doing a whole set playing most of the record, and we're actually inviting those two guys on stage to help us with that other stuff, because we did so much overdubs and harmonies and stuff like that, because we felt like the album at this point should be this thing that lasts forever. If we do more overdub stuff, more Beatles-y kind of stuff, that's very hard to do live. It's cool because this album is going to live longer than we do. And for the art sake of it, we're happy with kind of conceding with that. However, we're making an arrangement for two people as well. But for this upcoming tour that we have, we are actually having some of our friends joining us on stage for a little bit of it, which is cool.

The biggest hurdle for a European tour is the financial

Perfect! Are there any plans for a European tour? Also, what are you plans for the next album, since you already mentioned something about next your release? I think I’m greedy…

Yeah, of course! Well, for a European tour… man, honestly, the biggest hurdle for us is the financial bit, because we have to fly with our gear. Some of Kevin's gear can't be found very easily, so we have to fly with it, which is very expensive. And then just crew and prices of everything have been so hiked up that the margins are paper thin, especially for a band at our level, right? We're kind of gaining popularity, but we're not quite there yet. So we're working so hard tooth and nail to be able to get over there. Signing to a label like Inside Out, definitely anchored in Germany, in Europe. We're hoping to get over there sooner than later. But, you know, one day at a time, man.

But as far as the next record is concerned, right after this tour we have across Ontario, beginning of April, we're diving headlong into this new record. It's been amazing. We already started, we made the story already. We have everything figured out. Musically, we've already got the foundations laid out for us, which is super cool. And we're just developing it further and recording it this summer...

I'm loving it when artists, let the creativity flow and they don't do everything by the book. Like when they say "We'll see if the tour cycle ends and what happens next"…

Yeah, we really want to get ahead of ourselves this time, because when we did a "Fearless", we didn't do much for the next three years, right? So we don't want that to ever happen again. So, we're trying to just do as much as we can, be as active as we can, and make as much music as we can while we still got the tap of creativity flowing.

Yeah, perfect. Now, so before we close, I'd like you to tell me what you’ve been listening to more lately.

Okay. I've been listening to Glass Beams EP. I don't know if you've heard of them.

Yeah, with the masks and stuff.

Yeah, with those like reflective masks. Yeah, they're super cool.

Also, Angine de Poitrine here in Montreal. They're like this duo that plays microtonal music. They just put out a new album, they have a couple bodies of work. I've been digging through their discography because they just blew up here. Just super cool. They wear like paper mache stuff and they're really weird.

And then I'm listening to "Polygondwanoland" by King Gizzard. I really like King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. They're a cool band that I'm really into right now.

What else? I listen to so much world music that I have like world music artists that I can't even pronounce their name that I'm listening to right now. Yeah, I get it.

Broad taste of music, but no prog in there...

Yeah, not like classic prog. Actually, I've been listening to "Duke" by Genesis, which is pretty cool. And then I would say like just random bits of Dio's discography, whether it's with Rainbow or just Dio proper. Yeah, that's what I've been listening to.

Perfect! Well, I enjoyed our conversation so much. We'll do our best to get you to Greece, man. We love to have you here.

We would love to play Greece!