Jordan Rudess: "When you listen to the music of the new album, you’ll get it"

It was many years ago when we first got in touch with the wizardly keys of Liquid Tension Experiment and just before we knew what hit us, Jordan Rudess was part of the Dream Theater family. And then in the blink of an eye, Dream Theater released "Metropolis pt.2: Scenes From A Memory" with him and the rest is history. He was up there in the pantheon with them…

In the twenty five years that have passed since then so many things have happened, too much to even recall them. But, one thing that is certain is that we’ve had the chance to enjoy so much music coming from Jordan Rudess, mainly coming from Dream Theater but from numerous other projects he’s been involved as well.

These days, as you’ll read below, Jordan is in the midst of exciting times, preparing for the first tour with Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater after 13 years. Also, they’ve just finished their brand new album and he can’t hide how happy and proud he’s with how it turned out. But, then again, he has just released his new solo album, "Permission To Fly", which is not one to fall under the radar. And that’s, of course, another reason for him to be excited.

In the in-depth interview that follows we had the chance to learn everything regarding his new solo work and how it was formed, while he told us a few really intriguing things regarding the upcoming tour and the new album of Dream Theater. And we had the chance to express our love and gratitude for all the music through the years.

Did we mention that exciting times are ahead?

Hello Jordan. It's a pleasure and a privilege to have the chance to talk with you again. How are you doing?

Doing well, how are you doing over there?

We're doing fine. We are at the extension of our summer, so heat is still on. And I guess you remember from your presence what Greek summer means in terms of temperature and heat and stuff…

Well, you guys are used to it, right?

Yeah, we are. Now, both me and Nikos we're big fans of yours and your work with Dream Theater, so we are both very honored to have this chance to talk with you.

Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate that.

So let's get straight to our interview cause you must really have a busy schedule, as you have a new solo album coming out in a couple of days and you have the preparations for the Dream Theater tour. So how does it feel to be in that state again?

A mixture of exciting and very busy and like thinking about scheduling and just everything that's coming up, it's definitely a really, really busy time. And there's more to it than even that actually… (laughs)

But I won't go into the details. It's just one of those periods of time. Just gotta focus, gotta work, and enjoy as well, because there's a lot of fun things happening like. My solo album that's about to happen… What is it, four days now? It’s super exciting. And, of course, the tour is going to be so fun and amazing!

But yeah, it's all good stuff!

Stylistically speaking, today a lot of the voices that we hear are just very growly in the prog metal space, where they're singing in some kind of cookie monster way or something. I didn't really want that

This is your first, let's say full band album even though you've always been very busy. You've always keep releasing your stuff either singles or albums, you've had orchestral albums as well. But, this is the first full band album since 2019 and "Wired For Madness", so can you give us a bit of background on the compositional process? How did you approach the writing of the music? What was your target going into this adventure with this new album?

Well, I wanted to create a follow up to the "Wired For Madness" album. I wanted it to be something really unique, something special… And so I spent a lot of time thinking about the approach and also talking to people, like the guys in Inside Out and my friends, about what might be very effective. And after a lot of thought I decided that I wanted to do something that felt a little bit more like a band. It seemed like that idea would really work for everybody. So, I started to get those ideas together.

Of course, there's some focus time figuring out who would be in that in this project. My first strong consideration was who's going to sing on this album. You know, vocals are very subjective, they're very personal. One person likes a certain voice, somebody else doesn't. It's crazy. And especially stylistically speaking today, a lot of the voices that we hear are just very growly and there's that whole side of what's happening in the prog metal space, where not everybody's singing in the beautiful sound. They're singing in some kind of cookie monster way or something. I didn't really want that. I wasn't interested. It's not my thing. So, the search began.

Luckily after a little bit of a struggle, I spoke to my friend Roie at Prog Report, who actually told me about this amazing singer whose name is Joe Payne, he goes by That Joe Payne. I did some research and I thought, "Oh my God, this guy has a really beautiful voice". So, long story short, I spoke to Joe, he was very interested to do the album with me and we started to work on it together. And I thought "OK, this is a perfect singer for my music", because I almost felt like the sound of his voice was an extension of my own musicality. I just felt very connected with his sound. It's a very beautiful, very melodic sounding voice. And I wanted the vocal parts of my album to be a little bit more easier to have an immediate relationship with, rather than the proggy parts which maybe you have to listen to a few times to understand what's really going on. They're more complex generally. But when I wanted to feature the voice, I wanted it to be more like song oriented, something that was easier to grasp. So there was some intention there with how I wanted to use the voice and how much I wanted to use the voice as well. So, that was a big deal for me.

But then also, obviously, finding the other players to make it more like a band vibe, I enlisted Darby Todd, who's the drummer who I met because he was playing Devin Townsend. He and I were on tour together with the DreamSonic Tour, which was the Dream Theater tour with Devin and Animals As Leaders opened up for us. Anyway, we hit it off and I asked him if he wanted to play drums on my album and he wanted to do it. And that was like the core band there, which was great to figure that out, as it set me in motion to writing all the music.

And then I also had a guitar player. His name is Steve Dadaian, he’s playing guitar, he’s a wonderful electric and acoustic guitar player. And also a special guest on the album whose name is Bastian Martinez, who is a Chilean guitarist, kind of one of these next generation guitar players that plays like you can hardly believe it, but he's learned from people like John Petrucci and all the amazing greats of our days. And while I'm on the note of guitar, I should say that I played a few guitar solos on the album as well, because I've been playing guitar for the last few years and I wanted to play a little bit on the solo album. So yeah, so that was a little bit of my thinking going into it.

And the other one more thing in answer to your question. The album was composed in a couple of different ways. One of the ways which I think was worth mentioning is that a lot of times, since I'm always kind of like expressing myself through music and especially like at the piano, I'll have a feeling or an inspiration. I'll sit down at the piano and I'll just play something. And if I feel inspired, I'll sometimes put my iPhone down on the camera and capture it on video. So, I had a collection of like 30-40 different little clips of me just kind of like vibing if you will at the piano. And when it came time to do this album and I realized that I wanted to have some songs as well as progressive, wilder music, I went into those clips and I went with my daughter, Arianna Rudess, who wrote all the lyrics for the album as well, and she helped me kind of like go through all those clips and pick the ones that we felt were the most effective to be turned into songs. So I had these little 8 measure bits and things that we kind of went like "That's really pretty, that really works well". So I took those into the studio and began crafting around that to make the songs so. So those are some thoughts and answer to your question.

The "Jordan Rudess music world" is pretty big, but it's got its own window of possibilities, cause I am one person

My question regarding all these compositional process that you just described is that mainly Joe Payne and then Darby Todd, did they somehow change the way that the songs came out as a final outcome or they just took the final product and added their parts on it?

With Joe, I had written the melodies, I had basically played in the melodies with a vocal sound from my keyboard. But I sent them to Joe and he was great! Because he could then take them and do his thing with them, the inflections. Sometimes change the melody. I gave him some freedom to play around a little bit with the melodies. I mean, in general, he liked what I wrote. But he has his particular range. And so he was very good about making things fit and feel right with his voice.

One area that's really worth noting and I think really helped the album’s band sound is that Joe is not only a great singer, he's also a knowledgeable musician. So he was able to take some of the MIDI parts that I played, which I sent to him (the MIDI file), so he could see all the notes and the keyword chords. And he was able to go in and make some really cool vocal arrangements in certain parts. Like even in like "Shadow Of The Moon", which is the latest single that I released. Joe took what I did, but he also added his own touch to it, which I totally welcome because they felt like the "Jordan Rudess music world" is pretty big, but it's got its own window of possibilities, cause I am one person. So, by bringing Joe in, somebody with that kind of creativity, we were able to expand it a little bit and have some his influences come into mind. And it makes it into something that's bigger than just me, which is great. So that was wonderful.

And with Darby... Darby asked me to do some scratch drums on my keyboard, which I enjoyed doing, and I could pound out the accents that I like and it sounded I thought decent when I did that. But I sent it to him so he could understand all the odd time signatures and all the madness of my progressive musical mind. You know, kind of what I was thinking. But it was great as Darby is just one of these guys, he's got a lot of experience. He's musically really advanced, so he was able to take what I gave him and understand it so well, as if we had worked together for like years. And he just knew my style. So when he came back to me with his playing, it was like "Oh my God, man! Like, I hardly have anything to say because you took it and you just did the perfect thing for this. For those styles, which I weaved together". So, yeah, those are very important, those elements and those contributions were really key to making it sound like it does.

One of the reasons I'm attracted to the guitar is because the difference between the keyboard and the guitar fret board

And you also mentioned playing the guitar for a couple of years. And also we've seen you posting various videos online and our job continues to drop with your skill set on the guitar as well. So I was wondering, first of all, how did it feel for you to work on the guitar parts themselves? But also, what do you see as the difference in expression between the two instruments: keyboards, which is of course what you've been known for so many years, but also the guitar, which is let's say, your latest adventure of learning a new instrument amongst others.

Right, right! Yeah, it was really fun to play the guitar. I originally wanted to play more guitar on the album, but when I do these kind of things like a solo album, there's a certain window of time which I have to do them in because I've got this other gig with this group called Dream Theater and they got very, very busy...

Who’s that?

Right, who are they? (many laughs)

So, I tried to get my solo album done when I can. And when I went into the studio to do it with the intention of playing a bunch of guitar, like doing all the rhythm parts or whatever, I forgot one thing… I forgot the fact that I had no experience in recording an actual instrument like a guitar! None, zero, big zero! It's different recording guitar than it is recording on my MIDI synthesizers. That's a whole different thing. So I didn't really have time to do a lot of investigation and how to use logic audio. I didn't have time to go back and like figure out or even learn how to do all that. That would have taken a few days or a week. So I kind of took the approach where I was like "OK, well, here's the solo spot and I can play that through, I don't have to do a lot of audio editing or manipulation". So that's what I did. So in a few songs, I just was able to do that.

And then later on, some months later, actually I learned how to record with the guitar. Too late for this album, but it’s actually something that's gonna be coming up pretty soon. A little announcement in my world that people will be interested in related to the guitar, so we'll keep our eyes open for that, now that I learned how to record properly with the guitar.

But the second part of your question, the difference is… well, one of the reasons I'm attracted to the guitar is because the difference between the keyboard and the guitar fret board, the layout is really significant. Significant in my mind, especially! Because of all the years that I spent translating or developing the skill to be able to put my hands on exactly what's in my head. That's why I'm an improviser, like I can sit at the piano at any time of the day and just start to play stuff. More easily than the words that are coming out of my mouth right now. Just play just whatever comes into my head. And that skill is really interesting, because it's a direct translation of musical thought to putting my hands on the keyboard. With the guitar I don't have that skill. That's just not happening, although it's being developed. And the development of that is what's really interesting to me. First of all, and guitar players who are listening can give me their opinions, but I feel like guitar is almost like a relative pitch person’s instrument. It's like you don't want to care so much about, "OK, on that dot or that space or that string is an E"… You more want to care about "OK, you're here on where… Whatever note that is.... And then you move and it's the interval that matters more than the exact note". So for me to turn off my perfect pitch brain and just think in terms of guitar, that's the challenge that really interests me.

Cause, of course, I hang out with one of the greatest guitar players ever, John Petrucci. And he's always talking about - as guitar players do - shapes. You know, the guitar show. "This is a great shape" or "this is a great pattern". And I always like "Well, what? What do you mean a shape?". I thought like "I don't know. Just talk to me about the note. What are the notes?". But now that I've been playing the guitar, I get it! Because you find these shapes and before you even think of what the notes are, it could be really cool. It sounds like you put your hands in the shape and you go "Oh my God, that's great". And then you think, "what are these notes?". And so I've been like in that space a little more appreciating the shape thing more and also learning to find where are the notes. Like, a lot of times I'll hear something in my head and I'll go "OK, I know what it is in the piano"… I go E-D. And then, like, I'll go. "OK. Where is that? Where is it on the guitar?". It's like it takes an extra moment to say "Oh, I know, I know it's here somewhere". Anyway, some interesting kind of things about it. But it's coming together. It's definitely coming together.

Perfect. Now I think you mentioned you had you have another side project I think you called it Dream Theater…

I remember that!

As a musician coming from the classical background and then really immersing myself in like progressive rock, those two factors are kind of spinning around my brain and they don't necessarily relate so much to the Dream Theater world

When you're jamming and gathering ideas, how do you distinguish which ones would fit better for your solo staff or keep it for Dream Theater? Is there a fine line that divides ideas for one or another while you're working on stuff?

Yeah, it's a great question. It works pretty well for me, for a couple of reasons. One of which is the timeline. You know, if I have that space for the solo album, then very likely I have some things that happen right before that process. And they will fit in and they are made while thinking "OK, these are things from my solo world". So, when I'm in a Dream Theater time/space and when we're working, then all my ideas, all my musical ideas are funneled towards that, because it's time to come up with some stuff for the Dream Theater album. It's not like we have to go back, like a year before or six months or whatever to find ideas, really. A lot of the ideas are happening right in the window of time that we're working on this stuff. But, you know, sometimes there's a riff or something that's appropriate. But generally my ideas are funneled towards a certain project. I know "this is appropriate for a solo album" or "this will really work for Dream Theater", so I kind of almost like naturally keep that separation.

A lot of the songs on "Permission To Fly" were things that I knew they're not going to be for a Dream Theater album. They're more stylistically from my world. And the thing that also makes that a little bit easier - and it's a really great reason to have solo albums - is because, as stylistically wide as Dream Theater is, there's a lot of things that I do and that are really very different. I mean, everybody comes from their own place and really when you think about it, everybody could do a solo album. But for me as a musician coming from the classical background and then really immersing myself in like progressive rock, those two factors are kind of spinning around my brain and they don't necessarily relate so much to the Dream Theater world. So there's enough stuff going on in my head that can come out in this place or can be directed towards the other place. And "Permission To Fly" is a great example of that, where I think people will listen to that and go "Oh, yeah, I kind of I hear some of the Dream Theater stuff", but they also can say "wow, this is very different than Dream Theater". And maybe then, when they go back to listen to Dream Theater, they can say "oh, that's probably a part that Jordan wrote". If they really know my style. Because they can tell "Yeah, that's a Jordan kind of thing". So, anyway, it all kind of works like that.

My daughter’s been trained on progressive rock since the day she was born basically, learning how to tap odd meters on the way to nursery school

Nice! One more question regarding the lyrical content, as you mentioned, you worked with your daughter Arianna on the lyrics for the album. So what was your experience and was it a proud dad moment to be able to work with her and create something that will stand the test of time, let's say?

Well, I started this process of putting this album together and after I got it in my mind that I wanted to have a lot of parts that were vocal. I also considered writing the lyrics myself, but then I was thinking about it and going "You know what I want these lyrics to be really, really deep and substantial and it needs somebody who is thinking about this thing, about the language full time. Not me, who's mostly concerned with the music and doing it as a little thing". So my daughter, who is a linguist, she majored in language in college and she's extremely creative and she's been trained on progressive rock since the day she was born basically, learning how to tap odd meters on the way to nursery school. I felt like "Oh my God, here is this person right in my world who is so deep into language and language creativity. Just take it!". I said "Do you wanna write the lyrics for this album? Cause I really want you to". So she was like, "OK! Absolutely, I'll do it". And she immersed herself into it and did an amazing job. I'm very proud of her, for doing what she did. But I couldn't think of anybody better to give this job to.

One thing that I'm really sensitive about within lyrics is the way they sound. Like, sometimes I'm listening to music and I'm floating along listening to it, and all of a sudden there's like a word and I'm like "oh, why do you use that word? It doesn't go with the musical phrase at all". So, Ari really feels that too, as well as being very much into the meaning and the language. So, she was able to accomplish writing these cool lyrics, but also being sensitive about the way that the words sounded with the phrasing of the music.

So, yeah, I’m very proud. I was happy to do something on this professional level with her, cause we've always done creative things together, but not on this level. So it was a great opportunity to do that.

Alright, now allow me to get to that other project a bit and ask you how excited that you are as days approaching for this, for the tour with Dream Theater. Cause it's only a few weeks from now. If I'm not mistaken you start early October and that’s about a month from now, more or less.

We start the Dream Theater tour on October 20^th, in London…

Well, it's about more than a month… But, anyway, it's not a typical tour, it's not another tour cycle. It's something different. So there’s this excitement…

Yeah. It's close. It's really close…

So, is this excitement shared within the band as well? Because it's been shared between your fans internationally...

That’s true!

We're all super pumped and excited and feel really good working together, and enjoying getting back to that kind of core magic

How does it feel right now, as you’re approaching to go back on stage with Mike Portnoy?

It feels really exciting! As matter of fact, there’s a lot of things are going on! One is it takes a lot of work to pull it all together, because we're doing "an evening with" type of show, so that means it's longer. It's a lot of songs, a lot of music to learn/relearn. And for me as a keyboard player a lot of programming, because I'm not the best file keeper in the world. So for playing something really old, I've gotta go through my files and go "oh, where is it? Which disk drive is this song on?". And when I find it I go "Is this the most recent version?". And I feel like "Shhh, I should have been a computer engineer with all the files that I need to keep"… (laughs) It's definitely not my specialty! So, I'll find a file for an old song and I'll go "OK, well, I found it, but I don't know if it's the most recent". And then I'll go through it and say "Oh, I guess it's not! Because there might be something weird about it". Like, I'm moving the pitch wheel, but my hands on the ribbon is making it do something weird and I go "I think should I turn that off".

Anyway, there's a lot of work to be done to do this. Let alone the muscle memory of some of these songs… you know, the keyboard muscle memory which gets lost after so many years, having not played some of the songs that we're gonna play. So, when I hang up with you guys, I'll be going back over to the keyboard and doing exactly that, like preparing all these things.

There is something about Mike Portnoy’s drumming, and having him in the band which is different. It’s just different

But, yeah, besides all the work and the pressure and the "Oh my God feeling" of what's going to happen, there's also a lot of excitement just about the whole thing. It really is going to be a very special tour. It's going to be a very special album and it's gonna be a really special tour as well. The vibe in the band is really so great. It's what we want it to be. And it's what all the fans want it to be as well. We're all super pumped and excited and feel really good working together, and just kind of enjoying getting back to that kind of core magic, whatever. You know… that element that's a little bit indescribable. People sometimes try to put in words in either graceful or non-graceful fashion on the Internet. You know, there is something about it. There is something about Mike Portnoy’s drumming, and having him in the band which is different. It’s just different. And I think we've all been loving having him back and just experiencing that.

And for anybody who might think that what I just said is a little bit unclear when they hear the album and they see the tour, they will feel it and they will hear it and they'll know exactly what I'm talking about. So, I feel like it's been a really great time in the Dream Theater story now. Especially now, personally I’ve been listening to the music that we've created in the studio and I couldn't be more thrilled to the fact that we got here and we're doing what we're doing.

You gave us a lot of pieces with a new album, I have to say. And I know you probably cannot give too much info on this…

No, I can't.

Mike Mangini is one of the world's greatest drummers. And he did a fantastic job with Dream Theater. We won a Grammy, we made a whole bunch of albums… We did fine!

So, going back to the studio to writing a Dream Theater album, with Mike back in the band, what was your main thought? What was your main target? Did you have something specific in mind or did you go into it and say "OK, let's see what happens..."?

When he walked in and we started working, we felt like we didn't miss a beat. I kept having to tell myself "wow, it's been 13 years since we worked together", because it really felt like "Hey, we were just together the other day". It quickly came together, in terms of establishing that we were going to go back and almost rediscover some of the core magic that we had. And that was easy, because Mike… I'm always telling people that in addition to Mike Portnoy being a great drummer, he also has so many other interesting skills that he brings to the table when it comes to anything to do with music production. I mean, he's just - as we all know - an interesting, rare kind of very smart, very musical person. And so he just brought it all to us like "hey, guys, if you want it, here I am again. What do you want from me?"… (laughs) He's been very cool, because he knows he can't walk into a situation that existed without him for 13 years…

There is an energy there, when Portnoy plays in Dream Theater, in his home band. Let's say there's something really special about it. It's undeniable

What I like to point out and not to be forgotten about is that for the 13 years that he wasn't with Dream Theater, we had it incredible drummer. I mean, Mike Mangini is one of the world's greatest drummers. And he did a fantastic job with Dream Theater. I mean, as you guys know, we won a Grammy, we made a whole bunch of albums, we recorded some really good music… We did fine!

But here we are, in this interesting chapter and it is what it is. It's amazing. It's so beautiful. When you listen to the music of the new album, you all be like "Yeah, I get it" There is an energy there, when Portnoy plays in Dream Theater, in his home band. Let's say there's something really special about it. It's undeniable. So, there is that.

Discussing about this excitement and us being longtime fans, with Nick we always keep looking for any information about when the album going to come out. And I was thinking that it takes a lot of time in these days, from when the album is written, recorded and ready to go, up to the date when it's finally released to the world. And I think it's a bummer for more musicians waiting so much. You know, we are all red with excitement right now waiting when the album is about to be released. So I hope it does come out no really soon…

Yeah, I can't give you any indication right now of the release date just cause it's not public knowledge. But I'm sure we'll all know as soon as possible.

But, yes, I agree with you! It takes a long time. Like, now we've basically all done our parts, it's being mixed and then obviously has to be mastered and produced and all the different things that go into an actual schedule... So yeah, we'll get the announcement pretty soon about when it'll be released…

But, the good news is that in four days my album is coming out. So, everyone will have something cool to listen to, to keep them entertained while they're waiting for the next big entertainment… (laughs)

Yeah, and it's a really good one. I don't remember if we mentioned that it's one of the best personal works that you've done, and you've done quite a lot of personal works about around 20 studio albums I think more or less.

Wow. Crazy. I don't know.

That's what Wikipedia says...

I don't know. I just realized that people are counting the albums that I have out that are not really solo albums. They're music that I created for licensing, like for Universal publishing. You look online and there’s all kind of different things that I've done, but they're not "solo" albums. They're music that was specifically made for like a licensing house, for people who are making movies or television and they want to use a song. And I produced four of them or something like that. Four or five. And so sometimes they get wrapped into people thinking "oh, those are part of his solo career", But they're different…

Hopefully we'll get to see you in Greece in the summer time

All right. And Nick will allow me to do one more question because it's a coincidence that happened today. I had a call with a major promoter here in Greece for another reason. And when they called me, knowing that I'm a huge Dream Theater fan, they told me "we have some great news for you, but we can't tell you anything". And of course I asked them "Is it Dream Theater? I'm talking with Jordan Rudess today, so just tell me"… But, I got nothing… They left me hanging…

You're hanging. And now you left me hanging, because I don't know anything about it… But I think that our European Tour is already scheduled, so…

We were talking about a festival date, in the summer.

Oh, nice! OK, I see… I'll find out when the fans post about it. Then I'll be "oh, look, we're going to Greece". Really...

The bottom line is that we’d love to have you here. Sooner than later.

I would love to come back. I have a lot of friends there and it's always great to be there, so let's see. Let's hope. It's gonna happen at some point. That'd be nice if it was in the summer. So maybe your friends knows something that I don't.

I don't know. Maybe they were teasing me because they know that Dream Theater is my favorite band….

Ah, maybe not… I'm struggling still to get like dates that are much sooner than the summertime… (laughs) I'm always like "tell me where we're gonna be playing. Tell me where we gonna play". I don't wanna find out from a fan on the internet where my next concert is… But that's what happens….

That’s it from us. As Chris said, we're very appreciative of the chance to speak with you. Again, congratulations on the new album. And thank you for keeping us inspired and hearing new sounds, feeling new feelings and everything that comes out of the magic part of the wizard.

Uh, thanks, guys. It's a pleasure to see you and talk to you both and I really appreciate the time and the support and the energy. And hopefully we'll get to see you in Greece in the summer time. If that's going to happen, that would be amazing.