Avantasia: "I don’t have to sell my ideals in order to survive in this strange business"

There are not many new things one could say to introduce Tobias Sammet. For many years now he has proven his persistence in keeping the flag flying high in a genre (power metal/melodic metal) that is in a constant "drought" (to put it elegantly), while as a character he remains brutally honest and as a conversationalist wonderfully unbridled, hence delightful.

On the occasion of the release of his 10th studio album with Avantasia, a project that started to release only two albums 25 years ago and has become a benchmark for European metal, Tobi talks to us about the creation of "Here Be Dragons" and of course about much more topics, most of which just occurred in the flow of our conversation.

He talks openly about the overwork and nervous breakdown caused by his need to please everyone and work non-stop for many years, and how it made him completely change the way he sees things and operates as a person and a professional musician. At the same time, he declares himself an unrepentant fan of the old times and expresses his concerns about how things are evolving in music in general and especially in the metal scene, promising he will continue to wave the flag of his ideals high.

Ladies and gentlemen, the disarmingly honest and delightfully authentic Tobias Sammet...

Hey Chris, how's it going?

Hello Tobi. How are you?

I'm fine. How are you?

I'm fine too. I'm really happy to have a chance to talk with you once again!

Oh, thank you. Same goes.

One day remains for the release of the new Avantasia album. And I guess you're in the mix of anxiety and excitement as always with release dates, right?

You know, I have so much work currently that I don't even feel anything at all… (laughs) I mean, I’m happy I did the album and I'm happy it turned out great, but to be honest with you, I’m just preparing for the tour and getting ready to do the show and preparing everything… There's a lot going on as I said and of course I’m happy that the album is finally going to be released and unleashed, but there's too much stress, actually, to think…(laughs)

I never thought it would come this far! So, I don't take it for granted

The positive side of stress…

Yeah, absolutely!

So, congrats for reaching the 10th album with Avantasia! It's quite a milestone, especially if you take into consideration how this project started 24 years ago and how it's evolved from there.

Yeah, yeah! It’s been 25 years! It's been a long time and I'm really happy that I made it this far. It's absolutely special! I never thought it would come this far! I've no idea how it happened! When I started out, it was meant to be just two records, and now it's the 10th record and, of course, it's grown from a project to a band, which I did not really expect to happen in the first place. So, I don't take it for granted. I take it as it comes, but I don't take it for granted at all.

I approach it is still the way I've always approached it. You know, trying to be honest doing what I do and giving it my everything

Back in 1999 I was 18 years old, already a follower of Edguy, and I remember learning the news about the new Tobias Sammet project and when I finally heard it, it blew my mind. And here we are, 25 years later, almost 45, a grown man one would say. But some things remain the same. And it's good to know that some things remain the same…

Yes… (laughs) But then, some that don't always remain the same. I mean, I'm always depending on having things that I can rely on. Sometimes I don't have to change… but change is a natural thing. Even Avantasia evolved over the time.

But, the way I approach it is still the way I've always approached it. You know, trying to be honest doing what I do and giving it my everything, and giving my best into it and that's the way I've always done it. And I'm very thankful I'm able to do it and do what I really like and not kissing too much… I don't want to say kiss asses… but doing what other people expect me to do. But, just to please myself and get away with it. I have many, many song ideas lying in the drawer that are not worse than anything else I put out. Some of these ideas you will probably hear in three or five years

I have many, many song ideas lying in the drawer that are not worse than anything else I put out. Some of these ideas you will probably hear in three or five years

Yeah, you do that. So, since 2010 and the double album with "Angel Of Babylon" and "The Wicked Symphony", you’ve released an album exactly Every three years. Is this a part of planning or is just how it turns out based on your creativity?

Ha! It is no planning at. I have to say nothing of what I do or most of the things I do are not planned at all. Lot of what I do just happens naturally and it's probably my natural beat. I think I could release albums more often, because I'm very creative and I have many, many song ideas lying in the drawer that are not worse than anything else I put out. Some of these ideas you will probably hear in three or five years. Sometimes, I go back to those ideas. I have a big treasure chest with unfinished ideas, with basic ideas. I'm writing a lot and I'm really writing music for me. It’s not so much about what I have to deliver. But it's more about getting things off my chest. It’s like keeping diary. It’s therapy. I sit at the piano and I just write and I do things the way I have to do them. Probably tonight I will sit at the piano and have a song idea and just let out my thoughts and my worries and my feelings and my emotions and turn it into a musical piece that I will finish or will not finish. I have no idea.

And the whole thing, it has become a big machine, which I successfully ignore most of the time when I'm with myself playing piano

So, what I want to say is that I probably could release an album every year, but it's a natural pace that I follow without making a plan. But you have to see, there are so many things connected to releasing an album… because you're doing a tour and you're doing the promotion tour and you're preparing things, building a new stage. And the whole thing, it has become a big machine, which I successfully ignore most of the time when I'm with myself playing piano. So I don't really worry too much about what's going on around. But if I released an album every year, like I did in the very first time of my career with Edguy, the surrounding work would probably be too much or it would be too stressful. So, it just feels like a natural pace… I could have released "Here Be Dragons"… Probably if I would have wanted to, I could have worked faster or started earlier to finish the songs and I could have probably released it a year earlier and it would have been the same quality. But the thing is that sometimes I just don't want to think about the whole stress that goes with releasing an album. As I said, promotion tour and finishing stuff and photo sessions and video shootings and there's so much work that that turns me off… (laughs)

Yeah, I get it…

Not that talking to you turns me off... (laughs). Don't get me wrong, but it's really a lot of things. And I didn't have a record deal also. That's something I renegotiated. It’s the first album on Napalm Records, so it took time to sort everything and that's why the album comes out only tomorrow and not six months ago or nine months or twelve months ago.

I was 30 years old and I thought if I'd go on like that, I will die by the time I'm 40

Yeah, I get it. And I respect that mindset that you have, that you don't want to be a slave to the grind, to quote Skid Row…

No, I can't. I'm 47 years old. There was a time in my life I have to tell you - and I'm very open about it because I'm not ashamed of it - but there was a time in my life when I was working too much and it was clearly working too much. There was the time between the late 90s, and I would say 2014 or maybe 2016, when I was releasing Edguy, Edguy, Edgu, Avantasia, Edguy, Edguy, Edguy, Edguy, Avantasia , Edguy, year by year… And I wrote every single song of those records. I did every single interview for those records. And I organized everything, and there was a time in my life when everybody took it for granted. Everybody said "OK, this year he's gonna play with Edguy, then he's gonna play with Avantasia and he's gonna come back with Edguy". And I felt like I was used like a machine. Nobody did that. I don't want to blame anybody. You know, it was me, because I allowed it. I set the pace and I allowed people to take it for granted, because I set the pace. So that was a time when I really I lost my hearing in one ear, I had nervous breakdowns and I was a nervous wreck. And that's also why at some point I said "OK, I have to slow down because I want to enjoy this". I was 30 years old and I thought if I'd go on like that, I will die by the time I'm 40.

A lot of people who have listened to the early Edguy and Avantasia records will feel home. And still I think it's an album that I've never done before

I get it. I'm with you. I understand. So, going to the new album, I can’t see music wise why any fan of your music or of Avantasia won't be really happy with what you've delivered in "Here Be Dragons". And I guess you’ll agree with me...

There will never be a time when everybody is happy... (laughs) But I think there is a good chance many people will be happy, because I have a feeling it's a very, very good album. I have a feeling it's very consoling… is that the right word? I mean, a lot of people will feel home when they listen to the album. A lot of people who have listened to the early Edguy and Avantasia records will feel home. And still I think it's an album that I've never done before. With an approach that I've never had in Avantasia. And I am very happy with the outcome. I'm always happy with the outcome because otherwise - as I told you, I write it for myself - I wouldn't release it. I would. I would keep on working because nobody pushes me at this time in my career. But I am very happy with it, with the album.

And rightfully you are, because it's a really good album.

Thank you!

I go into my imagination with everything I do and I've done so as a kid. Not because I wanted to get away from reality, but because I wanted to get to a place in my imagination that would give me strength to return to reality. That was Heavy Metal and Hard Rock in my childhood

So, let's start with the artwork, as the cover has a vintage stating and was designed by Rodney Matthews. How does it connect to the albums themes and how did you decide to have this cover?

The album was to be called "Here Be Dragons" after I had written the song "Here Be Dragons". The song title goes back to an ancient map where there was the term "here be dragons" used to indicate uncharted territory. A territory, an area where nobody knew what was there and that's why the cartographs put "Here Be Dragons" to warn you: "Don't go here, won't know what dangers may be here". And to me that sounded like a beautiful start of a journey. Because, that sounded like adventure! And that's like what my imagination is all about. I go into my imagination with everything I do and I've done so as a kid, not because I wanted to get away from reality, but because I wanted to get to a place in my imagination that would give me strength to return to reality. That was Heavy Metal and Hard Rock in my childhood. When I went home from school and I was bullied, I listened to WASP and AC/DC and Dio and Kiss. Those people understood me. Their music gave me a home and I went back the next day and said "OK, you idiots! Here I am stronger than yesterday". Because, the music had given me something.

And also when I write my music, I go into a different state of mind, I go to imaginary places and they give me strength. Being creative gives me strength: the music, the lyrics, the artworks, the imagination, the worlds that I travel to. And that was what "Here Be Dragons" was all about. This song is about escapism. And, in a wider sense, I felt that's a great headline for an album, because for the first time in the history of Avantasia, I have not sat down in the beginning writing a story that I had to follow and that I had to write a concept around. But, I just said "This is not going to be a rock opera. This is not going to be a concept album. This is going to be 10 individual tales and experiences and pictures from my imagination. I'm just going to write songs". And I said "I'm going to write songs not even with singers in the back of my mind. For the first time in Avantasia, I'm going to write songs just like I would write songs for Edguy. Just like I would write songs for a solo band. And then see what I’d do with them! But I was completely song focused. And I think that's also why the album became so driven and so punchy and so song oriented, and why the album was so accessible. That was my approach this time. I just go there and I have faith it will be an Avantasia album, but I just throw myself into the process without making a plan before. And I go to a place where I don't know what I'm gonna encounter. And that was the perfect approach. And "Here Be Dragons" was the right title for that.

Rodney's approach is very old school and very far away from what the Spotify generation who stare at artworks on their mobile phones in the size of a stamp is demanding today

And as for the artwork, I just I had a call of Rodney Matthews, last year in January and he brought me the terrible news of Tony Clark's passing, the guitar player of Magnum… And we spoke for two hours… I hadn't thought about asking Rodney for the artwork. But during the conversation I was reminded of what is really important in life and how much Magnum had meant to me and how much playing music with friends and working with friends and working on things that I really care about. And Rodney Matthews has painted most artworks for Magnum and many great other artworks that I have framed on my wall. So, Rodney means something to me. And I knew that Rodney is not exactly flavor of the week. Rodney's approach is very old school and very far away from what the Spotify generation who stare at artworks on their mobile phones in the size of a stamp is demanding today.

But I said I don't do it for the Spotify generation. I do it for myself. So, I asked "Rodney, do you want to paint a beautiful big embellished artwork for me? The album is called "Here Be Dragons. I want to have a dragon on it with open wings as a symbol for the album". I gave him some of the song titles and he did it and I'm so happy! It's not exactly trendy. Not modern. It's not flavor of the week. But it's exactly what I cherish about music. I am not trendy. I am not modern. I am very vintage. I'm 47 years old. I'm as vintage as it gets. If I was a car, I’d be an old timer... (laughs)…. I don't feel like one yet… But, as I said I want to do it for the sake of doing something that means something for me. And I got the dragon back and opened it up. And that was like Christmas to me. Yeah, exactly. That's what exactly what it should be.

But this "All Star" tag that we had been given, to me it felt more like some singers who go on tour together with a symphonic orchestra and play their greatest hits and play "Hold The Line" and "Smoke On The Water". And that was nothing that I wanted…

Yeah, it is very fitting to the music somehow. Now, even though you are in the spotlight and you are the main character on all Avantasia albums - even more in this one - always the guest singers play an important role. And I guess by now you have some household names because I couldn't imagine an album without Michael Kiske, Bob Catley, Ronnie Atkins or even Geoff Tate by now. So is it essential for you to know that you can rely on them and have those on board for each new Avantasia album?

You know, I'm surrounded by friends! And fortunately those friends are great singers and great musicians, and in the past Avantasia was often considered to be the "All Star project". And I don't like that term "All Star Project". Everybody who is on the album is a star in his own right, a legend. Geoff Tate, Michael Kiske, Ronnie Atkins, Bob Catley, you name it. Kenny, Tommy, Roy, Adrian... Great singers and I really appreciate working with them. But this "All Star" tag that we had been given, to me it felt more like some singers who go on tour together with a symphonic orchestra and play their greatest hits and play "Hold The Line" and "Smoke On The Water". And that was nothing that I wanted…. Avantasia had become a gimmick thing to some people.

At some point, after I had worked with Alice Cooper and Klaus Meine and Rudolf Schenker and Eric and Bruce of Kiss and Jon Oliva and Dee Snider... at some point for people, it was not so much about what are the songs going to be like. Whenever I announced an album, people were like "Oh, I hope this time he has Ozzy Osbourne or Rob Halford or the Pope"… (laughs)

So, I thought that's getting in the way of what I want to do. I want to play music. And I want to play music with great voices, admittedly. But it's not about having a completely new line up with every album. I want to write great songs and record them and fill them with magic and life. And I have so many great singers in my close environment, in my family, like Adrian and Ronnie, and as I just mentioned, Bob and Michael. So I said "this is a family album". Is it's about Avantasia. There will not be the Pope. There will not be Pamela Anderson. And there will not be Bags Bunny. There will be my family and we’ll record great songs together just like a normal band. I'm very, very happy Michael Kiske has been singing for a long time, since the first album, and he's a wonderful, wonderful singer. And I'm very happy. I mean, he's back in Helloween, so he has a tight schedule, but he always finds a little time for his old friend...

A little time seems proper…

A little time is proper… (laughs) Oh yeah! I got it! (laughs)

The term Power Metal is really cheesy. When I grew up there was no term such as Power Metal. It was just all Heavy Metal and Hard Rock

But, you also have some new blood on the album. And I was wondering what would happen if you had Royal Khan and Tommy Karevik on the same song? You know, Kamelot, fans would go crazy with that...

Yeah, but you know… The thing is, it wasn't meant to be like that. I didn't do it just for the effect… I didn't want to come up with a cheap gimmick like that. It was really coincidentally.

Tommy was on tour with us last year and what a great chap he is. And what a great singer he is. And I had the song "The Witch" and I thought that would be perfect for Tommy to sing on. And so I just asked him and he sang it and he did a wonderful job.

Then, a few months later, we were about to finish the album. And I thought the album was quite heavy and quite fast. I don't want to use the term "power metal", because I think the term is really cheesy. When I grew up there was no term such as power metal. It was just all Heavy Metal, Hard Rock, whatever… But anyway, you get what I mean when I say power metal… And in the album there is a lot of what people consider power metal…

So, I didn’t have a ballad. And I thought what it needs a big song. Like in a movie or in a theater, the last song should be a big, epic, slow song and I just started to play this ballad and I recorded it, came together very naturally in a very short time. It’s called "Everybody’s Here Until The End"…

Great song!

Yeah, I really like it as well. It reminds me a little bit of Slade's "My Oh My". It's also got some Queen and Savatage influence… But the song was a dedication to my late father, who passed away 11 years ago. It was just a dedication to him and I wanted to sing the song by myself.

But I had written it, I had played piano on it, I had arranged the strings on it and so I thought "OK, there is so much of me in that song". It's a homage. It's a tribute already. But still it needs a different element. It needs a singer who can fill it with even more life. I need a duet partner. We listened to the track and we listened to the demo vocals of mine and we thought "who would be the right person?". And I think it was Sascha who came up with "Why don't we ask Roy again?" He had sung in Avantasia before, back in 2008. So that was the whole story. And I didn't really go for this Kamelot thing, because you know it's like…

Yeah, I was just joking...

OK! You SHOULD have told me before I give you a full desertation… (laughs)

Well, it was an interesting story… (laughs)

(laughs) OK, then that's good! No, but seriously it is funny to have both of them on one record, but it was not intended.

Yeah, I guessed so. I think next time I will have to ask for a two hour slot to ask half of the questions that I’ve readied when we do an interview. I always forget that!

I will talk faster now. I'm sorry... (laughs)

There’s no problem! I enjoy it SO much! There's so much nice stuff that in there! And also you’ve covered a lot of ground of what I wanted to ask.

OK then!

In order to become a musician, you had to have a dream. You had to look up to the likes like of Bon Scott and Paul Stanley and Blackie Lawless. You looked at them and you wanted to do what they did and you just had to feel the music and sacrifice a lot. Today’s young kids, for them the dream starts with having as many TikTok followers as possible…

Another thing that I would like to ask is – and I’m not going to talk about guests anymore - … as I said, the 10th album is kind of a milestone. How do view the evolution of the music industry since you started your musical journey with Edguy and Avantasia, both in general, and specifically in the metal industry that you serve as a musician?

Very difficult! Because, in general, I mean if I tell you the truth of what I think, everybody will think that I'm just an old white man complaining about the early days when everything was better. But, the truth is I am an old white man, and in the early days everything was much better… (laughs)

If you get a record deal these days, you have to be happy as a young band that somebody releases your music. Don't ask for money, please!

I grew up in a rehearsing room. I grew up with amplifiers. Carrying amplifiers around. There were no talent shows on TV. In order to become a musician, you had to have a dream. You had to look up to the likes like of Bon Scott and Paul Stanley and Blackie Lawless. You looked at them and you wanted to do what they did and you just had to feel the music and sacrifice a lot. Today, you have a lot of people, young kids that for them the dream starts with having as many TikTok followers as possible. And it's all about queuing up at a talent show and singing Mariah Carey songs, sounding like 200.000 other singers, but making it perfect.

When you open up a music magazine, there are pirates and there are crusaders and there are wolves and soldiers and gladiators. Fuck me! What a bullshit show!

So, it's become very different and I preferred how it was in the earlier days, because I grew up it was a completely different environment. I mean, there are good bands out there, but let's face it, if you get a record deal these days, you have to be happy as a young band that somebody releases your music. Don't ask for money, please! But, if you don't ask for money, you cannot focus on being an artist. You have to do something else and you have to pay to release your music, and that's just SO wrong, because it destroys art! And that's why everything relies on artificial intelligence. Everybody relies on making things cheap and making things gimmicky, so you get TikTok followers. It's more important than having a great song. It's more important to have the right dress. And sometimes when you open up a music magazine, one of those few music magazines that are still left and that you can still hold in your hands and you go through it, it looks like a live action role play for costumes… There are pirates and there are crusaders and there are wolves and soldiers and gladiators. Fuck me! What a bullshit show!

Today bands first go to the costume store and then they go to the instrument store. When I was young you went to the instrument store, you were dreaming about a guitar and you saved to get all your money together to buy that guitar

Back in the day, Kiss and Alice Cooper had a gimmick… and King Diamond… They were brilliant! Ozzy Osbourne was a werewolf. Brilliant! I like Powerwolf don't get me wrong, there are some real good bands who can back up what they do with their music. But I have a feeling today bands first go to the costume store and then they go to the instrument store. When I was young you went to the instrument store, you were dreaming about a guitar and you saved to get all your money together to buy that guitar.

That was a long answer again, I’m sorry. I’m gonna make the next answer shorter, I promise…

No it was perfect. And you thought you lost me because I was diving in my thoughts based on what you were saying. And by hearing your answer I was not sure if I wanted to laugh or to be sad with what you're saying, because I feel the same. ..

What I want to do is to prove that I do not have to sell my ideals in order to survive in this strange business that it has become

Then again is this thing going to turn around? And what can we do? Guys like me and you… to maintain something out of this situation inact...

I don't know if there is something we can do about it. I mean times change and of course you should not deny the way of the time or the way things go. You have to somehow live with how things are. Still, I think we can still keep our mindset and hold the memory in our treasure chest and maybe pass on our enthusiasm for music to the people that we like and that we have around us.

Look at me! I'm an example! I don't know if I'm a good example, but I'm moving in this new business and I have to adjust to it and I have to deal with it. I am caught in 2025 just like you are caught in 2025 and we can't do anything about it. But still tomorrow I'm going to release an album that comes out in a beautiful format with a 96-pages book, with bonus tracks, with handcrafted music. An album that has been produced by love and not artificial intelligence… No artificial intelligence, only sweaty human stupidity. My stupidity created the album and I'm so proud of that. I just can do what I can do. And what I want to do – at least for myself - is to prove that I do not have to sell my ideals in order to survive in this strange business that it has become. I think you can get away with being honest and delivering old school quality.

You’re indeed an example. I've always said that you carry the flag, maybe alone in this European melodic metal scene – you said you find the Power Metal term cheesy, but I’ll use it to identify the genre you’ve served. And you've done it almost by yourself for too many years now, allow me to say...

Oh, thank you very much.

Because, you may be kind about some new bands that have these costumes and are like warriors, pirates, gladiators, and whatever you call them, but it’s what you said. To me most of them are in for the looks rather than the music. At least, in my perspective, being into this music for around 30 years. So, I've always considered and I've always said that Tobias is carrying the flag alone in this journey. Everyone is fleeting, you know? And you are there, stubborn and doing what you do. And you’re doing it well. And that’s something to appreciate in you…

Thank you very much. Thank you for your nice words. I mean it's. I think there are some people around that do it as well… I mean, I know for example Kai and Michie and Weiki. I think they are the same way, they have also this old school quality. I think there are some people who defy what's going on. But, yeah, it is what it is. It's the zeitgeist and there's nothing you can do about it. But we will stand our ground and will be the survivors. And keep the flag up high.

We will have each other’s back!

That's that sounds like a plan.

So, Tobi, I want to thank you for your time. It was great, as always. I always enjoy so much talking to you. You have so many nice things to say and interesting stories. It's always a pleasure to have a chance to talk with you.

Thank you very much. It was a real pleasure and thank you for support. Let's keep the flame burning. You and me! And our brothers and sisters in mind!

I will never forget that essence was the first proper show I've ever played in my entire life. The first show where I felt "this is what a heavy metal concert has to be like

And let's hope to see you in Greece again. I don't know what has to be done to see you here with Avantasia.

I really hope so. I really hope. Let's see what can be done. But I haven't given up hope yet. You know what? Greece… I have to say one last thing… Greece has been the first country where I really felt the love of an audience in my entire career. That was on the 30th of March at Rodon club, with Edguy supporting Iron Saviour. We had just played a few bars and small places and all of a sudden we came to Greece and people sang our songs and people welcomed us with open arms. And I will never forget that essence was the first proper show I've ever played in my entire life. The first show where I felt "this is what a heavy metal concert has to be like". And I will never forget that. And that's why I haven't given up hope coming to Greece... I really hope so…

Let’s hope when you come here next time, we will give you the goosebumps once again..

That will be great! Thank you very much!

Thank you Tobi! Till next time!

See you next time. Bye!