Avantasia interview

Many musicians tend to find interviews, a boring obligation that they have to deal with. Tobias Sammet is the exact opposite. He is an exciting person, full of energy and good spirit, ready to talk a lot and use his sense of humor, which explains why 45 minutes were not enough to ask him all the things I had in mind. Nevertheless, you should read all these nice and interesting things he had to say and you’ll realize, as I did, that he has achieved a lot of things not only because he’s a talented musician, but because he’s a great person as well.

Hi Tobias. I am glad to talk to you as I’ve been following your musical endeavors for the last 15 years.
Well, that’s quite some time. 15 years before it must have been... "Vain Glory Opera"...

Yeah, that’s when I actually found out Edguy...
I remember the first show on that “Vain Glory Opera” tour with Iron Savior. It was the first time Edguy went together in one airplane and that was in Athens.

Oh, I think we’ll get there at about 15 questions down the line...
(laughs) Ok, let’s go to number one then...

As it already seems, although we are about to talk about Avantasia’s new album, inevitably we’ll talk about Edguy too. Really, how easy is it for you to switch from one band to another?
Relaxing! (laughs) Honestly, it’s great because I do never work on two bands at the same time. I always try to focus at one thing at the time and most of the time this is Edguy. Because, Edguy is my main band and Edguy are my school friends from the old days and we can rely on each other, we are family and we are a band that’s been together for quite a long time. I mean it’s a very special thing to be in the same band for now more than 21 years. But, every now and then it feels great to break out of this routine that you are in when you work with a band situation. You know, the difference is with Avantasia I do not necessarily have to deliver something. When we work on an Edguy album, we work for goal of delivering an album. When I work on Avantasia it’s more of a hobby. I don’t need to meet anybody’s expectations, I don’t need to deliver something, I don’t need to worry about a schedule, because literally the project does not exist on a regular basis. It’s just a hobby that I do whenever I need some creative freedom or creative free time. Then I work for Avantasia. It’s not that difficult to switch from one project to another. Not difficult at all...

You describe Avantasia as a hobby. I guess I can say you’re a guy with expensive hobbies, hehe.
(laughs) Well, it’s actually not only expensive, it’s also rewarding. I would say I am blessed to have such a hobby, because just imagine that you work a lot, imagine you come home from working the whole day and doing things that you like to do, but at the same time are very-very stressful, even privately. You know, you have a lot of thing to do and then at 8:00 at night you disappear into your basement. You disappear into a different world, into a secret world that nobody outside knows about and in this world you can create a music, you invite a story, you create a conceptual story, you compose the soundtrack for your own conceptual story and you write the songs that you would love to hear from your favorite bands and in the end you invite your biggest idols to work with you. I know, this sounds like a dream. For me, it‘s a hobby and I make these dreams come true. It’s an amazing feeling. Too good to be true, actually…

Yet you describe yourself rather lucky, but I’d say you’re capable. Because, many artists have tried to do what you do and most of them didn’t succeed. On the other hand they did drown, mostly financially...
Oh, you know I had a lot of luck. I had a lot of great companions. I still have a lot of great companions. I have true friends by my side, who share that vision and support me in any possible case. I have people like Michael Kiske who was there for me from the start, who defined the sound of Avantasia in a very big way. You know, without Michael Kiske “The Metal Opera” would not have taken off. And I thank Michael for that. And without Bob Catley, Avantasia would not be what it is. Without Sascha Paeth I would have gone crazy producing myself. So, I am surrounded by great people and I am not afraid to be surrounded by people who are in some field better than me. Because, you know, it doesn’t make sense to invite people or to gather people around you that are worse than yourself. It makes you feel better maybe and it’s good for your ego to gather people around you that are a little bit below you, but the true secret of success is to gather people around you who are as good or even better. And I think I’ve always done that. I’ve pushed my ego aside and invited people like Michael Kise, the vocalist of vocalists or Bob Catley. I’ve always had a lot of great people who drew a lot of the attention, because they were really great musicians and great icons, that’s why I think Avantasia is as successful as it is.

I assume that Avantasia is more a band with Sascha Paeth and Miro on your side, rather than a solo effort of you. Is there truth in this assumption?
It is a solo project. But, as I said, I have musicians with me who have an impact and an influence on what I do. Because, otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense to have these musicians around. I try to get the best of the best, in order to deliver the best result and if you want the best of the best, you can’t expect them to step back. In the end, it’s me who says “I want this and I want that and I don’t want this and I don’t want that”. But, still, you have to have these musicians. If you take for example – it’s a stupid example maybe, but it definitely gives you the idea – Ozzy Osbourne, he has always been joined by great guitarists. Of course, his sound was defined by Zakk Wylde, by Randy Rhoads, by Gus G now, a Greek guy. So, you have to have good people around you, but in the end the good thing is that if something goes terribly wrong I have the chance to say “NO! This is my baby! We do it this way.” So, I don’t really think it is a band, but I think it is a project with great wingmen.

I’ve only had the chance to listen to “The Mystery Of Time” only a couple of times and my initial impression is that has the standard quality of any Avantasia album, but at the same time it’s the more “conservative” one.  You see the “Metal Operas” brought back European metal when the genre seemed to be left for dead, “The Scarecrow” dared to change the sound, while the previous album was a double one and quite ambitious. This time the only actual change is the use of a real orchestra, but it’s not that innovative in metal to use an orchestra anymore. Was it your intention to make something more similar to the established sound of Avantasia? I hope you get what I mean...
I know what you mean. But as I can say, the answer is difficult and easy at the same time. I was not ambitious at all with this album. I did not have any intention. The only intention I had was to enjoy the creative process and just create something that I love. Without thinking about the effect that it may have on the listener or anybody on this whole planet. I just wanted to fulfill my dreams and following my vision of creating music that makes me happy. And even enjoy the creative process that made me happy. The journey was its own reward. It was just for the quest, not the purpose. I just wanted to create music and enjoy it, not waste it on second thinking about what people may think. It was a very-very innocent creative process and what you hold in your hands or what you have in your stereo is 100% me. 100% what I think is the best music in the world, just an honest piece of music without any giant goal or big ambition. I know, promotional wise, it would be much better to tell you something like “I had this vision and I wanted to do this or that”. The truth is I wanted to seize the time I had creating this record and fill it with life and joy and just create a record that makes me happy. Create it and then maybe it makes me happy listening to it...

I appreciate more someone who is honest than someone giving PR answers. Now, let me ask you about the singers that appear on the album and especially the ones that appear for the first time on an Avantasia album. They have a more classical hard rock/heavy metal background, singers like Joe Lynn Turner, Ronnie Atkins, Biff Byford and Eric Martin. What led you to collaborate with each one of them this time?
Well, I don’t know what the background is. For example, Biff Byford I think is one of the inventors of heavy metal. He was one of the first to define the termination of N.W.O.B.H.M., so I’ve known Biff for 13 years now or 12 years and you know it was overdue. I just wanted to work with Biff at some point, because we know each other for so long and I was on stage with Saxon on 2007 on Wacken Open Air. I’ve never seen a bad show of Saxon. I’ve seen many shows of Saxon and they were always great and so it was just time to work with Biff. With Ronnie Atkins, I wanted to have him on the “Metal Opera” back then, but he didn’t want to it and it took me 13 years to make him finally agree and be a part of Avantasia. I met him in 2012 on the 7.000 Tons Of Metal festival in the Caribbean islands, on a cruise ship with a metal festival, when Edguy was playing and Pretty Maids were playing and we had a nice conversation, he’s a nice guy. I told him about that, that I wanted to have him and he turned the offer down and last summer I asked him again and he was open to do it. You know, I think “Future Word”, the album of Pretty Maids, is one of the best heavy metal / hard rock crossover records of all times. I am a real big Pretty Maids fan. The album “Future World” combines real heavy, up tempo metal with classic hard rock, just like Edguy for example. You know, I think Pretty Maids is the band that is closest to Edguy, because we are perfectly caught between the worlds of what people call Power Meta and what people call Hard Rock. To me personally, it’s always difficult to draw the line between the two worlds, because ultimately you can’t really draw a line. I mean, also Joe Lynn Turner. What is Joe Lynn Turner? Is he a heavy metal singer? Is he a rock singer? Is he a hard rock singer? You know, Rainbow are considered a rock band, but then Dio has sang in Rainbow and Dio is considered a heavy metal singer, whereas Joe Lynn Turner is considered a hard rock singer. It’s really difficult to draw a line. Joe Lynn Turner, for example, was for me just a vocalist that has sang in some of the best guitar driven albums in the history of rock and metal. For example, the early 80s Rainbow stuff, the late Rainbow stuff. Also, the stuff on his solo records, the stuff that he did for Yngwie Malmsteen. So, what is Yngwie Malmsteen? Is he a heavy metal guitar player, is he a rock guitar player? You see, it’s really hard to draw the line. Especially the album “Slaves And Masters” of Deep Purple, which I think is a pearl, a real diamond, that a lot of people never really appreciated enough. I really think “Slaves And Masters” is one of the best Deep Purple records. Because the songwriting and the performance, especially the vocals are amazing. So, Joe Lynn Turner is one the true icons in rock music and rock music to me also embraces and contains heavy metal. With Eric Martin it’s very exciting to have someone who comes from a completely different background. You know, the song that Eric is singing on is a very European sounding ballad. Very-very European chord progression and it’s a real epic, European, bombastic power ballad. Eric was great. To bring him in was exciting I’d say. To bring someone in that comes from a completely different background, which is more soul, more blues rather Amercian style. So, it was exciting to hear what an Amercian, blues and soul vocalist like Eric Martin would to a very European, epic rock song. I think the combination of these two worlds sounds the same great and amazing.

Then, it’s really good that Kiske is singing on Avantasia alums, because it’s only with your music that he reminds us how great singer he is. I know it won’t be easy for you to speak about that, but in my opinion almost any other work he’s done since he returned to rock/metal sound is rather disappointing. You only seem to know how to make him sound right...
Well, I take it as a compliment...

Oh, it is...
I don’t want to comment on that, cause you know, I am not in the position to judge. He’s a true friend of mine and some of the composers that have worked with him since the early 90s are friends of mine too. So, I am not allowed to judge. But, you know, I am a big fan of Michael, of Michael’s voice. I am a big fan of “Eagle, Fly Free”, of “Future World”, of “I Want Out” and of the “Keeper Of The Seven Keys”. I talk about the first two albums, the real deal (laughs). It comes from the heart. He influenced me. Let me put it this way. I do not want to make something in order to sell records; I want to create music that comes from the heart. And I understand how Michael has to sound, because I understand it not as a musician, but as a fan. I am fan myself and I have always maintained that feeling that comes from the heart. It’s an instinctive thing, because it was Michael that made me want to become what I am, that woke the ambition in me to become a singer some day. I was 11 or 12 years old when I listened to Michael sing “Eagle Fly Free” and that was the moment when I wanted to become a singer myself, so it’s in my blood. It comes from the heart and it’ mainly the reason why I understand what Michael should sing…(laughs)

On the other hand there’s no Jorn Lande and you know he doesn’t really hide the fact that he considers himself a hired gun. Why wasn’t he involved on this album?
Well, you know, he didn’t want to do it. I spoke to Jorn, we are friends and he just said “I could sing, but I have other things on my agenda”. He had a lot of other plans for the future, he wanted to focus on his solo band and playing solo shows. He couldn’t commit to the tour and I understand that, I have to respect that, but life has to go on. To me, as a fan of his voice, I see it with a little sadness, but on the other hand, if you listen to the album, it’s just great for what it is. I’ve had so many great vocalists on this album, that you do not necessarily have a feeling that something is missing on this new album. I wish Jorn all the best, but he didn’t want to do it. He did not want to do the tour, so I said “ok then we’re gonna do a new way around, we’re gonna move to the new age of Avantasia without Jorn Lande”.

Also, it’s great to see Arjen collaborating with you. I remember the “Elected” single you did together, but nevertheless you are two of the most special personalities in metal. How did you decide to have him on the album?
Well, he decided that! (laughs). He contacted me, when he found on the internet that I’m making a new album and he said “Toby, I still owe you a favor. You were my guest on “Elected”, the Ayreon single and now I owe you a favor. I could play a solo for you.” And I thought it was a great idea, so we did it. He’s a great guy. He’s a great overall musician, a lot of challenge, he’s a very creative person, he’s a very weird person which I love! He’s a very nice guy and I wish him all the very best and all the success. If there’s only one metal opera project in the world that I wish success, he is the one, definitely. He can have more success than me, because he deserves it. Just a great guy!

There’s no doubt, you’re both great guys and the best in creating metal operas. Now, I didn’t have the chance yet to search over the concept, so please give us a brief summary of the story.
The story is about a young scientist – an agnostic scientist - who realizes that in his environment everybody seems to let more and more time. And it seems like people are being stolen. I mean time is being stolen by people. So, people don’t have the time to focus on what’s really important anymore. So, in other words, that young scientist has the feeling that something is lurking to accelerate the pace of human kind in order to keep the human kind away from asking spiritual questions and becoming aware of what’s really important and what really counts instead of just dealing with material vanity. That young scientist starts to investigate that whole thing and then an exciting journey begins, his personal life journey if you like. He goes through a lot of spiritual experiences and he questions the separation of natural science and spirituality more and more. Because, he realizes that both things don’t go without each other and a journey begins with a lot of spiritual experiences of that young scientist and that’s how the story goes. All of a sudden – well, not all of a sudden but in the story – he explores the coherences of convictions of natural science and spirituality and also the part time plays on the whole subject. It’ a nice fairy tale, I put a lot of my personal spiritual search and questions that I have in that story, but at the same time if you’re not very crazy about spirituality in heavy metal records you can just put it aside and just listen to the music and embrace the pictures that I try to paint with the music. It’s an exciting, enchanting fairy tale taking part of play in a small town during the Victoria age, the Victorian era. I think it’s an exciting story. It’s an exciting fairy tale, a criminal fantasy novel and I think I’m back to the real conceptual stuff. I think the “Scarecrow” trilogy was conceptual, but had some appeal of a solo album. This is more a true rock opera or metal opera I guess.

On your last visit here in 2008 with Edguy the crowd was quite apathetic to your performance even though you were playing really good. I remember you being pissed off and wondering on stage “what happened to the Greek crowd you once remembered”. I kept thinking how right you were, but there are various reasons and a big talk to do it on this interview. In a nutshell, power metal and bands like Edguy became too “soft” for the average metal fan here, as they were not considered mean and dangerous and such bullshit… How do you see this change from the aforementioned in the beginning triumphant live in 1998 that everyone was talking about to the 2008 apathetic crowd?
Well, I don’t remember it being that bad. But, you know, I do not have an answer to that question because I do not remember if it was so bad in 2008. Sometimes you have good nights, sometimes you have bad nights and sometimes the crowd has good nights and sometimes the crowd has bad nights. You know, I think most of the times when we go on stage and we’re on good shape we can tear the place apart and honestly I think our live performances today are much more powerful than they used to be in 1998. I was completely a newcomer back then, I was not experienced. I was on stage and I was insecure. You know, this was the very first show that I had to speak English on a stage back in 1998. So, we were not really experienced and I think we’re much better now. And so I have no answer to that. I just I thought it was a festival and we played pretty late already and most people were there for Nightwish, let’s face it, that’s the truth. But in 1998, it was Rodon club, it was 1200 or 1400 people that were only there to see Edguy and Iron Savior. And that was a difference story; that was our audience. In Olympic Centre Arena it was not our audience. It was an audience that was waiting for Nightwish and had to endure Edguy (laughs).

You know, Tobias, most of old European power metal fans lost their interest along the way with a few exceptions. I always claimed that you alone have been trying to keep the genre alive during the previous decade. You alone tried to push the limits, create synergies and do something out of the box. With all the respect to great bands and their history, they may keep their fanbase, but they offer nothing new to the sound. In your opinion, is it the artists, the genre, the fans or the industry or all of the above that led to this low point?
Well, that’s an interesting question. I can only guess. My feeling – and this is not my feeling as the vocalist of Avantasia and Edguy, this is the feeling of me as a fan and a member of the worldwide heavy metal family – is that a lot of people are stacked in a routine. I think people get caught in a routine. It’s album-tour-album-tour. Everybody is a little bit satisfied. Maybe not satisfied, but just full with information and everybody have been through it all, so people just try to revive the good old feeling, because they ‘re maybe afraid of making less money or going down. They’ve lost their motivation. And journalists. And also maybe even fans. They are afraid of losing the spirit of things. And they are so busy trying to maintain the past and stick to it that they completely forget about the reasons why they started to love that kind of music. My only ambition is to try to navigate through this whole business and my personal life and everything with excitement, with instinct and Intuition. I do not think about what people may like or may dislike. I do not think about what may sell records or may not sell records. I hope to sell records. Honestly, I hoped it from the first album on, because you have to sell records if you want to record another one. I hoped it from the first moment of my career, but the thing is that it was never my number one motivation. I want to keep it exciting and I think if I keep it that way everything else will come, if it’s meant to come. You know, there may be records that I have recorded that not every fan likes. This is not a problem; this is actually the most normal thing in the whole world. There are people out there who don’t like “The Number Of The Beast” believe it or not. I love it, but there are people who don’t love it. So what? There are people who hated Van Halen when they included keyboards in their music and recorded bubblegum stuff like “Jump”. It’s the biggest hit in the band’s history. Like it or don’t like it. That’s a normal thing. The problem is that you have to keep integrity, follow your instinct and do things for the right reasons. And that’s what I always will do. And that’s why I do Avantasia next to Edguy. I do not want to become one of those fats, those old fats who just make music in order to make a living until they retire one day. I do not want to speak about anyone in particular. I know a lot of bands, actually, who have the same work ethic as me. There are a lot of bands – for example Saxon – who play music for the right reasons. I know that as a matter of fact. But, the thing is I want to maintain and keep the excitement, no matter if I make the wrong step or the right step in the view of the audience. That doesn’t really matter. You can make wrong steps or you can write a crappy album. That’s not the problem. You just have to keep away from the secure path of doing it over and over and over again and dying the death of slowly fading into oblivion of always trying to be on the safe side of things. And that’s what I want to do. I want to keep it exciting for myself, otherwise I would be so bored, I would bore myself to death and that would be the end of my creativity too. That’s the answer I have, but I don’t know if it’s the truth, it’s just the perception that I have as a fan. A lot of people are trying to go the safe road and that’s just boredom. I don’t think it’s heavy metal sticking to your past and then cry. For example, when I wrote “The Metal Opera pt.1” I didn’t go back to anything, I did not stick to a rule; I did not live up to expectations. I just did it without anybody expecting anything. I just did it because I followed my instincts. And when I did “Rocket Ride” with Edguy we followed our instincts. We did the same thing that we did back then when we recorded “Vain Glory Opera” and this will go on until the day that I retire or the day that I die, which will pretty much be the same day I think (laughs).

Well, I have no more time I guess, so thank you for your time. Just let me tell you that I agree with almost everything you mentioned. Keep your spirit and your sense of humor – for which I hope we’ll talk in a future interview...
We’ll do that!